Single axle trailer OK for a 22' Cruiser? More questions

J

Joel.B

New member
Just joined this forum so i could maybe get some advice on a potential purchase. 1999 22' Cruiser, only has single axle trailer. Not sure what this boat weighs but I wonder if single axle is enough?

Also wondering what a friendly price would be for this boat. Has a small Suzuki 60hp 4 stroke that hasn't been run in 4+ years and may not run at all (attempted to start with fresh gas and wouldn't go). Also has Merc 9.9 4 stroke kicker with remote. Basic radio/elctronics/GPS, nothing fancy. Boat does have a full canvass enclosure and cover. Bottom is painted in anti-foul.

Boat looks to be in very nice shape, but it would take me 3600 miles 5 days round-trip to get it. I am wondering what a ballpark fair/friendly price for boat would be, assuming main motor needs to be replaced worst case scenario. The owner of the boat is up against some expensive health issues and I am trying to come up with a fair price that I can afford. I have looked at online prices and they are all over the place

Thanks for any help you can give.
 
Joel:
WE NEED MORE INFO! That little amount that you gave us is just skimming the surface. I think it will be hard to put a concrete value on this....BUT I'll attempt it, hehe. Could you maybe post pictures or a for sale link? That would also help immensely.

PURELY HYPOTHETICAL BULLET POINTS:

Pros--- The hull is in good shape with no damage and it's not TOO old. A well maintained 17 year old C Dory could definitely be in great shape. My first boat was a 95 and had no hull issues.

--- It seems like you have a good kicker motor.

--- There is a full camper enclosure.

--- There is a decent trailer. ( ??)

Cons--- The main motor needs work done AND is underpowered for a 22 CD. You'll need at least a 70hp as per the general consensus on C Brats.

--- Only basic electronics.

---- If the motor is not currently running what other systems were also neglected??

--- The boat is far away and that logistics amount should be factored into your cost equation as well.


My best, ballpark EDUCATED GUESS on a value would be $19-22k. Even if the owner gets the motor running, which he probably could if he wants too, you'd still have a high probability of a re-power in the near future. From what I gathered on here, a 60 hp on a 19 or 22 C Dory will be more than adequate to push the boat all day long at hull speeds but it will be severely lacking at long distance planing speeds. Especially if you add more passengers and weight. A good, used motor 70-90hp could be anywhere from around $4k-$7k and a new one, full rigged is probably between $9k-$12k.

Joel: You should try and talk to some of the C Brats on the phone. They'll help you immensely and it'll be faster than checking emails. I'll try and help you get some phone numbers too. Feel free to call/text me anytime but I've only been a C Dory owner for less than a year although I've learned a lot! :)

Jason 617.817.1136

Good luck and welcome to the group!
 
Thanks Jason. I think the problem with main motor is that it has sat for four years, maybe clogged injectors. If/when I buy it i'll go through and replace all the lines, filters and such, take it from there.

There is no listing for the boat, but I have some pics I can try to figure out how to post.

Any opinion on a single-axle trailer being adequate?
 
Joel.B":1gkf19k1 said:
Thanks Jason. I think the problem with main motor is that it has sat for four years, maybe clogged injectors. If/when I buy it i'll go through and replace all the lines, filters and such, take it from there.

There is no listing for the boat, but I have some pics I can try to figure out how to post.

Any opinion on a single-axle trailer being adequate?
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's probably fuel related and an easy fix. But read this old thread about a 60hp on a 22.

I think the single axle is fine. There are lots of folks on here that have single axle trailers. CD's are so light and easy to trailer. It probably came from the dealer with a single axle trailer, I wouldn't worry about that at all.
Your bigger concern would be the condition of the trailer. Lights, tires and hubs etc. You have a long haul to go pick it up.
 
I think a good single-axle trailer would be just fine. I have a tandem trailer for my 22, but I base that statement on the fact that I towed a very similar boat to my 22 from Washington to Lake Powell and back on a (good) single axle trailer. I really didn't notice any difference from towing my 22 on the tandem, except maybe it was a tiny bit more work to climb up onto the boat via the fender (15" wheel vs. 13" wheels). But it was a good, properly sized single-axle trailer.

I read about how it's more dangerous to have a blowout or flat on a single axle. I have not experienced that, but from reading on this forum from people who have, it sounded like it was not as dramatic as you'd expect - so that may not be as much of an issue as people would imagine (not that it's not always an issue, but I mean on a single vs. a tandem). I really like my tandem trailer a lot (and I trailer long distances), but I'm re-doing the brakes/tires/wheels/lines right now, and yep, it's all twice as much work and expense.

On the other hand, if the reason a person bought a single axle trailer in the first place was all about getting the cheapest trailer, it's entirely possible that it is under-specced for the weight. Then it's the fault of it being under-specced, not the fact that it is a single axle. 22's started out as lighter boats in terms of outfitting (single 70hp 2-stroke, 18 gallon fuel tanks, small battery(ies), etc.) so there was likely a time period where dealers/buyers were "adjusting" their weight expectations and this could be another reason why a trailer would be under-specced. Also the builders have often published weight figures that were lower than real-world, and so a too-light trailer could have been paired with a boat.

I do like having a tandem, but I would absolutely have bought a boat with a *good,* properly specced single axle trailer. (I might also have bought one with a crappy, under-specced trailer of any axle configuration as long as a new trailer was figured into the price.)

Just go give you something to go on, my 22 Cruiser on its galvanized tandem trailer weighs in at around 4,600# including tongue weight. This is with an 80 hp main plus heavy kicker (which I no longer have), 100+# of batteries, and empty fuel/water tanks; but lots of gear and tubs of tools, dive gear, etc. aboard.
 
Whelp, I think I am going to try to leave sometime this week. I will pack a thorough tool kit, take my floor jack and such, grease gun, electrical repair kit..... probably need to buy new tires for the trailer before I drive it home. I'll check hubs and such too.
 
Hi, having bought a few boats I think it is important to allow for the worst case scenario with your original offer (in the absence of a compression test /engine inspection.) Generally I always spend more on the boat than I anticipated at the time of purchase. I also just got rid of a single axle 1999 trailer as I trailer quite a distance away from services and had and unfortunate incident which made me cancel one of my summer trips.

Chances may be that you will want to upgrade the engine ($10,000 for new) and the trailer ($4500) if the electronics are 1999 vintage you will be upgrading them as well.

You will also need to be prepared to put in some sweat equity if the boat has been neglected. The value of buying a "fully loaded boat" of a newer vintage may be wise as you can spend just as much upgrading and older boat but not be able to sell for what you have in.

Best of luck, it is fun when you get a good deal.
 
Last Dec I was bringing the boat out of the water to take her home for the winter. A rear spring collapsed (rusted out) and I lost the rear axle. Thank goodness for the double axle trailer. I managed to return the boat to the water, then took the trailer to the shop and get it fixed. I still shudder at the thought had I been a single axle.

Martin.
 
"1999 22' Cruiser, only has single axle trailer. Not sure what this boat weighs but I wonder if single axle is enough?"

I have single axle trailer. Finally weighed my boat fall 2015 as I figured it was a bit heavy for the trailer. I have twin 50s, so more weight then your example possibly. My boat, 1/4 fuel, minimal survival gear, and all rigging was 3680 lbs. Trailer is rated to 3700 lbs capacity. So basically if I add anything more than a case of beer during transport, the trailer is overloaded and it shows when I pull.

There is a thread somewhere about the 22s being heavier then the published manufacturer weight. In my case, I calculated my boat is about 700 lb over the published weight which is 1925 lbs dry with no motors. My boat is a 2008 so either the manufacturer at that time added fiberglass and epoxy weight, or she is already soaking up water in the balsa core; I am hoping for the former.

If you plan to tow your boat loaded with gear and fuel then a double axle might be your friend.
 
Joel,

Jason is right, we really need more info to be much help. Sunbeam is right about the trailer too. The boat is definitely under powered, unless you are planning to do hull speed (5-6 knots) cruising -- which I do and enjoy, but not ALL the time.

A proper single axle can be fine. I started with a Pacific single, and after a few years, upgraded to a tandem. There were some other advantages on that trade as well, but the main one was to get the tandem setup which I consider a safety issue primarily and a utility advantage.

Your boat will weigh in at between 3,500 and 4,000 pounds. Mine (a heavy cruiser) scales at 3800, with full fuel and half water, and the trailer is an additional 1,160#. You could have a gem if it has been properly cared for in storage (inside, covered and water and engine system properly set up for the storage. Neglect is a boats worst enemy. Untreated gas, left for 4 years equals a full carb clean and replace parts. Water left in the tank could equal freeze damage, so could be tank and pump replace. If the boat was sored outside, uncovered, there could be water damage to the core. A survey might be worth the investment. If it is an original owner, and has been covered since original, you could have a gold mine.

Those trailer tires SHOULD be replaced with a quality trailer tire. No way would I consider towing 100 miles let alone 1800 miles on 4+ year old tires. There is a manufacture date on the tires. Check that.

If the boat has a name, there may be some information on the CBRATS site about it. Any history is helpful. Sometimes it takes some digging, but it may be worth it. Sounds like you already have your mind made up. You may be able to turn it into an investment.

See, too many “ifs” so when you asked about a price, It is really hard to even guess. A ball park, and a big one could be low 20’s to mid 30’s. Know that you are going to be putting some boat units out before you are ready for being on the water. You say you are wanting to make a fair deal. I know how that is, and it’s kind of like it was when I got my boat 10 almost 10 years ago.

Best of luck on your venture,

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

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Red Lantern":2n5cm2hx said:
In my case, I calculated my boat is about 700 lb over the published weight which is 1925 lbs dry with no motors. My boat is a 2008 so either the manufacturer at that time added fiberglass and epoxy weight, or she is already soaking up water in the balsa core; I am hoping for the former.
Click to expand...

My guess would be it is neither. That is, neither added fiberglass/epoxy nor water soaking into the balsa core. The former would cost money and there hasn't been any real reason to increase the layup weight. The latter is possible, but not super common (at least not in boat-weight-increasing amounts). My guess would be that someone weighed a bare 22 hull "back in the day" and they just stuck to that figure. Never mind the constant feature creep of all kinds of standard-by-2008 features. That's everything from cabin lights and wiring, to opening windows, to built in cockpit soles, sliding seats, and tons of other things that all add up even though none of them is super heavy (although the cockpit sole is likely the heaviest). And I'm not even counting batteries, larger fuel tanks and other things that have been added over the years.

It would be better if the published weights were accurate, for sure. I wish they were. Since they don't seem to be, I'd say that something between 4,000# (light boat) to 5,000# (loaded up) (or more if you REALLY load it up) is a more realistic figure. This is not just going by my boat (which is constructed normally and has no water in the core), but but by the scale weights of many other 22's which people have mentioned over the years (my weights are also scale weights).
 
It sounds like you have significant possible downside: questionable motor, which is not adequate for most users even if it runs well, and which will require mechanical work just to get running. Older boat (albeit in great shape). Single trailer (OK but tandem preferable). Electronics updates required? Since you asked...I would make an offer which assumes new motor, trailer tires, and electronics and still works for you. A new 90 hp motor will cost $10K + installed. Basic new electronics package $1,500 and that's just the basics. Figure $300-400 to have the trailer gone over and new tires installed. Your time and hassle must be worth something. For some work and creativity you could end up with a nice boat eventually. I'd offer less than $20K and be prepared to respectfully justify your offer. If you got it for say $18K and upgraded as described you'd still be into it for over $30K eventually, but you would get your foot in the door at a more affordable price than otherwise possible. I would painstakingly inspect the hull prior to purchase. Good luck with this! Mike
 
"Figure $300-400 to have the trailer gone over and new tires installed. "
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That seems pretty low (to me) for a trailer service AND tires, but maybe. I think I would be looking at about $250 for good tires, and $150 for bearings and service there. Maybe another $150 or so for brakes, unless you are doing all the service yourself.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

IMGP6704.thumb.jpg
 
westward (and others) have good points. When I was shopping, I considered everything from nearly new, "turn key" boats at $50k, to a fixer-upper (with sound hull) for around $10k. I can do most of my own work (except for engine work) but even so, I just couldn't make the $10k boat "work out" in my figuring. It always ended up being tens of thousands more in the end plus a ton of work for me.

What did I do? I took a middle road.

The $50k boat I didn't buy, but it wasn't really because of the price. It was because there were a number of things I didn't like or would have wanted to change, so then it's not really a $50k boat. If it had been JUST what I wanted, I would have gone for it and likely come out ahead.

The $10k boat I also didn't buy, because just the "big chunks" quickly made it not be a $10k boat (as westward mentioned: $10k engine, $2,000 electronics, $4,000 canvas, $5,000 trailer, $2,000 electrical, $2,000 upholstery... I'm already to $33,000 and there is tons I left out (paint, brushes, tape, wiring, and on and on), plus my work.

I kept looking and found a boat priced in between that could be used as-bought. Oh, I knew I wouldn't do THAT (I never do), but on the other hand I didn't have to run out and buy an engine, a trailer, cushions, etc. It was cosmetically very good ("just cosmetics" is a phrase that can really become expensive if you want to end up with something cosmetically nice). I STILL would have come out ahead on the $50k boat if I had liked it (it had basically unchangeable things I didn't want, like a high top).

Are there people who have bought $10k boats and it worked out just great? I'm sure there are. A lot depends on your expectations of what you want to end up with, how much you count your time (are you retired, working 60 hours a week, or?). And then too, there is the initial budget factor. Many times I've bought a cheaper boat (pre-C-Dory) even though I knew it would cost me more in the end, in both time and money. BUT, that's all I could afford, and I wanted a boat, so I bought low and fixed it up, even though it "didn't make sense." But at least I knew that going in. Maybe that's your situation too, in which case, it could be a great boat for you. Or maybe you just like fixing things up, or any number of other scenarios.

The one scenario that can suck is if you buy a "good deal" with expectations that it will stay cheap, not take too long, etc. etc. and then it becomes a nightmare. That's just a bummer and great to avoid.

Lots of this may not apply to you, so just take it as one person's mutterings.
 
Sunbeam is correct, the cheapest boat will normally end up being the most expensive eventually. Especially if it needs a new engine. Look at the 16 in my photo album to see the boat I should've named "short sighted". At least the next owner made out. I heard rumors that he named it " patience ". Best, mike.
 
It's too late for me to edit my post above, but I just wanted to add that when I mentioned that my weights were scale weights, I didn't mean to imply that Red Lantern had not also weighed his boat/trailer. On the contrary, he has, and he's found out (like others) that the published weight is a bit low.

I think where I went awry is that I was "disagreeing" on the additional weight being attributable to a heavier lay-up or water in the core (in huge/heavy amounts). I think it's feature creep that was never accounted for. But somehow I then made it sound like I disagreed with his weights, or thought he hadn't actually weighed.

I like how Red Lantern took the time to subtract other weights to see how his hull weight compared to the published one. Always interesting to do things like that.
 
A 3600 mile round trip for a questionable boat with a single axle trailer is not something I'd consider unless the owner is going to have the motor fully serviced and inspected and with some warranty. I'd consider this boat a project at best and 12 grand without a running motor would be a fair price. IF the motor proves to run well after service, then you could add 3 or 4 grand to the price. The comments about how you will end up with 30 to 35 grand in this boat at a 20 grand asking price are very important to take heed of. There are many nice, newer and properly powered 22's out there that have none of the issues that the boat you are talking about has.
 
potter water":173cpl30 said:
A 3600 mile round trip for a questionable boat with a single axle trailer is not something I'd consider unless the owner is going to have the motor fully serviced and inspected and with some warranty. I'd consider this boat a project at best and 12 grand without a running motor would be a fair price. IF the motor proves to run well after service, then you could add 3 or 4 grand to the price. The comments about how you will end up with 30 to 35 grand in this boat at a 20 grand asking price are very important to take heed of. There are many nice, newer and properly powered 22's out there that have none of the issues that the boat you are talking about has.
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Potter: I don't know how a guy can sell a '99 22 for $12k, even with a possible bad motor especially when you have boats like the one listed below selling for $60k ! LOL

https://www.popyachts.com/boats-for-sal ... iser-88847
 
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