Securing the Anchor Rode

L

Levity

New member
Hi Folks,
Levity is equipped with 150' of chain attached to the Danforth. There is a large stainless cleat positioned on the centerline of the bow and it seems the logical place to tie the anchor off once deployed. However, wrapping the chain around this stainless cleat doesn't seem right as the chain is bound to mar the stainless and wrapping chain around a cleat is clumsy and unsalty like. There is also the chain tension device used for holding the anchor in its secured, standby position but this seems too light duty for serious holding loads. If you are using chain as your anchor rode and do not have a windlass, how do you secure the rode to your boat? Please deliver me from this unsalty dilema.
Thanks,
Levity's Michael
 
We use a 15 foot length of three strand nylon dock rope, with a large loop on one end, and a small loop and shackle on the other. Let out the chain rode, and secure the chain with the steel retainer. Then attach the larger loop to the cleat, as you would on any dock. Attach the shackle to the chain, and then release the retainer, and let out more chain, until all the tension is on the rope. Back the boat down to get a good set the anchor.

If you want to handle cleanup, get one of the rubberized water sacks from West Marine. You can store the rope in it, and when you set the anchor, just loop the bag's strap through the cleat. When you raise anchor, use the rope and bag to get water for cleanup, then put the rope in the bag, and you're all set.
 
Michael,
I have never heard of anyone using all chain without a windlass of some type. Must be a job pulling it all in!

The only suggestion I would have is to use a short piece of anchor rode with an eye and shackel. Put the anchor rode on the cleat then attach to the chain with the shackel.

The simplest way would be to attach the rode to the end of the chain and just alway put out all the chain.

Out of curiosity what type of anchor are you using and what kind of anchoring do you plan on doing?

Steve
 
all chain rodes are useful in the Caribbean where there are coral heads which could abrade the rode through. Otherwise they are trouble because they have no give to them. When the boat moves in a swell, all the energy is transferred to the anchor, making it much more likely to pull out. 25 feet of chain and the rest 1/2 or 5/8 three-strand nylon is what you want. I have a total rode of 250 feet (chain plus rode) and it fits fine in the locker.
 
Thanks for the replies and the good ideas. Will try the docking line method and the wash down bag. Chain seemed over the top to me as a rode but that is how Levity was equipped. In use, the weight of the chain sitting on the bottom has a good deal of holding power. I do not mind hauling the chain in but wonder how well this operation will go when its blowing and the deck is heaving. Think I will work out of the Bomar in those conditions. I may also try to cover the foredeck area with a scratch and abrasion resistant covering to keep the chain from abraiding the gelcoat. The right qualitiy material will reduce the slick nature of the foredeck gelcoat when one tries to spring over the bowrail and onto the deck. I've experienced several akward moments attempting this maneuver; always at the public ramp, always on a busy day, and always an ungraceful ending.
Enjoying Summer :thup
Levity's Michael
 
A slight modification to Alma's Only method is to put a "chain hook' on the end of the dock line. This allows for repositioning the hook without dealing with a shackle.

A "chain hook" is a hook with a slot (instead of a circular opening) just wide enough for the hook to slip over one link of chain.

I have used this hook and line on an all chain rode on my pervious boat. It allows the chain to hang on line with less noise and the line has some stretch.
 
A snubber of 3/8 nylon 3 strand about 6 ft long is about right for a 22 cruiser. A chain hook or shackle is good for the chain connection, with the chain continuing to run loosely over the roller and the snubber connected to the bow eye via a shackle. This improves your scope angle and connects to the strongest point on the bow. It also solves the problems of bending the fairly weak bow roller assembly during rough, bucking conditions, and abrading the rode or snubber to the point of failure.

To get the mud off the chain, sometimes it helps to back down and jerk it a few times before you start your retrieval. This can help shake the mud loose. When the anchor comes up with a load of mud, just leave it dangling below the surface and drive around a bit until it clears.

One final thought...the Danforth anchor works best if the direction of pull does not change. For anchoring when a change in the direction of pull is likely, one of the other types will reset better in the new direction and will be less likely to foul on itself. The Bruce or Delta work well.

Have fun, Roy
 
Hello again,
Here I am with 20ft of 5/8 nylon line, two 5/8 nylon thimbles, one chain hook, one stainless spring clip, and one stainless quicklink. I've got the book of knots open and am working on making a couple of thimbled splices to atttach all this hardware. Let's see;"Lead the end so far unused around to the back of the rope and bend it around to tuck-in the same direction as the previous couple of ends-beneath the only strand unoccupied at that point in the rope." Surely brain surgery cannot be much more difficult than this! Hey, wait, think I've got my finger tied into this strand!
:crook Levity's Michael
 
You must be pretty sharp with computers, Michael. Nerds and knots don't mix. Thanks for the laugh.
 
Michael,

After determining that such a small boat does not need a windlass and that if I had one I would still need to be on the bow to operate it properly; we still ordered one installed. Being a belt and suspenders type, I also ordered the hawse pipe with a temporary plug in it. I like to be able to quickly deploy a second anchor. Twenty feet of chain and rope may be the primary anchor, handled by hand and fed through the hawse pipe. Time will tell.

I can think of only two reasons to have a windlass: to handle chain and to avoid going forward to handle the anchor. The latter is suspect.

Once we decided to get a windlass, we went with all chain for several reasons. The price quoted for installation was the same for all chain or short chain and rope. Second, I expect that much of our anchoring will be near coral in Florida. Third, all chain causes the boat to lie quieter at anchor. Fourth, the weight of the chain must be lifted before any great strain is felt at the cleat. Fifth, the dealer claims that the weight in the bow makes the boat trim better.

I don’t think any windlass manufacturer approves of the gypsy and gears taking the strain at anchor. And that goes for pulling the anchor. Except in an emergency, I would avoid using the windlass to pull the boat up to the anchor. Instead, I would motor to the anchor, using the windlass to pull in only the weight of the chain, re-attach the rope snubber, back down and break out the anchor, take off the snubber, cat the anchor and tie it down.

The snubber line serves two purposes. The first is to transfer the strain to a cleat or to the entire windlass used as a samson post. To accomplish this, you must, after letting out the scope you want, attatch the line to the chain and let both out until you secure the snubber. Then let out the chain som more, until you have at least a few feet of slack hanging from the bow. There must be enough slack chain between the gypsy and the far end of the snubber so that slack still remains in the chain after a hard gust of wind. The second purpose for a snubber is to dissapate energy. Given the light weight of the boat, I think that 5/8 inch nylon will not stretch enough to serve the second purpose. Even 3/8 inch nylon line may not stretch enough. You want it to stretch all it can without breaking and without reaching the limit of the slack chain.

The problem with all this is it requires you to work from the bow. I have yet to walk on the bow of a CD 22. It does not appear easy to get to nor a “friendly” place to work when you do.

On the Chesapeake bay, most anchorages have very soft bottoms. The chain comes up with each link encased in black mud. On my sailboats, I’ve always had a high pressure deck hose at the bow. I don’t expect to have such an arrangement on the CD 22. I can clean the last few feet by dangling chain and anchor as I slowly move off.

Short of swishing a few feet of chain at a time around by hand, what have you C-Brats, who use chain, been doing to keep the gunk from going below?
George
 
An additional benefit of an all-chain rode for the 22' Cruiser is an extra 90 lbs. or so of weight up at the bow. I think the boat rides better. I've never cleated the chain off. The stopper appears very sturdy and holds it fine. In a rough blow, I think the anchor would drag before the stopper failed.
 
George, I've been anchoring in that same mud for quite some time and it's really messy. There is no good solution for a boat that has no fresh water capability other than swishing...An alternative, if you have water at your dock is to leave the dirty stuff on deck, tied down of course, and wash it off with a hose when you get back to the dock. Or wait till it rains....

I usually haul everything out a couple times a year wash it off with a hose and muck out the anchor locker too :smilep ....It's just one of the compromises one makes to own one of these great boats!!

Charlie
 
Thanks George for the thorough reply. Cutter Marine also supplied Levity with chain rode and the more I use it and read about the theories of anchoring the less pleased I am with the practical performance of an all chain rode. Perhaps this is an opportunity to open the chain or nylon rode debate amongst us Ceedorians.
Certainly chain has an advantage over nylon when used on a coral bottom as it has great abraision resistance. Chain however is not stronger and weighs significantly more.
The snubber concept has merit but perhaps my execution is lacking as the whole procedure seemed more cumbersome and convoluted than simply lowering an anchor with 12 feet or so of chain followed by nylon rode. Allow me to summerize what I have learned from some reading on the debate between nylon or chain rode. I do not wish to pose as an expert on anchoring as I am not. I do wish to share information and encourage those with experience to add the weight of their real world expertise.
Nylon rode acts as a snubber in that it stretches to reduce the shock load and reduces the possibility of the boat jerking the anchor out of the bottom. Only in light winds will the weight of the chain lifting off the bottom act as a shock absorber before strain is put upon the snubber or otherwise transfered to the boat. In a moderate breeze the chain is lfted off the bottom and is suspended in a catenary curve. This curve or belly in the chain allows for only a small movement away from the anchor. In 33 ft of water with 3:1 scope the catenary curve of 100 feet of chain will allow about 5 feet of movement away from the anchor. 100 feet of 1/2 inch 3 strand nylon with the same scope and set will stretch 20 feet. More scope on the chain still yields 5 ft of movement whereas nylon yields a continuous increase of 15-30% stretch per foot of scope. Nylon is easier to use as it is lighter and does not require the use of a snubber and all that is required to deploy and retrieve the snubber. If the catenary curve information bears out in practical experience, nylon would be easier on the boat and crew when lying at anchor in moderate sea conditions even if a snubber is used on an all chain rode.
Levity's Michael
 
Where I normally anchor to fish for halibut is in Cook Inlet,in up to 150' of water, where the Gulf of Alaska flows into Cook Inlet. With large tide swings, sometimes 30' and more, and a current of 4 knots, it is impossible for a 22' C-Dory to carry enough anchor rode purely as chain.

I have 600' of 1/2 inch nylon shackled to approximately 25' of 5/16 galvanized chain attached to a claw anchor. The chain weighs the same as the anchor, 7.5 kg. The most I have had to let out is 550'. I pull the anchor using a bouy, a tricky manouver requiring one to avoid the rode with the props, or the props with the rode, but it sure beats pulling the anchor by hand, as I have no windlass. I am not sure the anchor locker would hold all 600' of rope.

When I camp for the night I usually am in more than 40 feet of water, tidal changes may get that to less than 10'. At that time I use only about 50' of nylon.

Notice that in 150' of water, I have no more than a 4 to 1 scope, I know the experts say it should be 6 or 7 to 1, but so far I have had no problems with the 4 to 1. (7 to 1 would be over a thousand feet of rope!)
 
Like Willbe asea, I'm in Alaska too although I usually ply Prince William Sound or Resurection Bay rather than Cook Inlet. I've had similar anchor experiences as he and use similar slopes. Even though as yet I have not needed it, I carry a "sentinel" anchor that I intend to use in the event I end up in seas that I question my anchor's holding ability. My main anchor is an 18# bruce with 25' of 5/16" chain and nylon rope. The Sentinel is an 11# mushroom type anchor on 1/2" nylon rope without chain. The theory is that in rough enough seas, I will lower the Sentinel down the main anchor rode (in my case with a carabiner attached to the eye of the mushroom anchor and rode) which will act both as a snubber and as a device to keep the effective slope of the rode at the least angle. I'm not sure how this would hold up under the coral conditions you experience but the weight and stowability seem like they might be an improvement over an all chain anchor rode.
 
:arrow: Tom on Otter,

Yes, the weight of chain in the bow was mentioned as a plus by the dealer. Sounds like a “false positive” to me.

I could not see a windlass in your photos. Are you using chain without a windlass? As I mentioned in an earlier post, I think a snubber attached to a cleat should be in place between the chain load and the boat. With chain, if all the slack and the catenary should be expended by a surge, something would likely break if no further elasticity (think snubber) existed in the system.

Tom, I make no claim to being an expert. I have done a lot of anchoring. But, you know the old saw that suggests the need to distinguish between 40 years experience and one years experience 40 times. Nor am I an advocate of chain all the time. I expect that on the Bay my ground tackle will be a short length of chain and rope and no windlass.

:arrow: Charlie,

I don’t know how we will end up using the boat but we expect to go for days at a time with as little time as possible at a dock. I may use mostly rope on the bay. Hope you operation(s) went well.

:arrow: Michael,

The weight of chain is one of its advantages. I think it takes more than a light wind to raise chain. Before the anchor can feel a tug the hanging chain as well as all that lies on the bottom must be lifted. The result is that the anchor doesn’t often have much work to do. Further, the pull is more horizontal with all chain. For that reason, I think most “experts” suggest a 3:1 chain and a 7:1 rope scope. Yet another advantage of chain - shorter swinging circle. Also chain never wraps around a keel or motor as current and wind fight each other. Nor is it likely to be cut be someone’s prop nor wrapped around your own. (Do outboard boats raise the motor when they anchor???? I would think that leaving the motor down reduces charges around the anchorage-especially with all that light rope. :D )

:arrow: Sunset Ride,

Do you use a much heavier anchor for the 150 foot depths? I’ve never anchored in water so deep. I might set different ground tackle if I’m awake than I would want down if I’m trying to sleep or leave the boat in unsettled weather. 600 feet of loose rope is a pile.


:arrow: Billy,

All you guys from Alaska bring back fond memories from our motorhome trip up there this summer. I took deliver of our C-Dory 22 Cruiser today. We ordered her in a phone booth in Hyder, Alaska this summer.

All of my anchoring experience is from the deck of a sailboat. A 36 foot ketch we owned had no windlass and we anchored her on all kinds of bottoms for 26 years using a 22 pound Danforth with 10 feet of chain and the rest rope. I carried a kellet or sentinel for that whole time. Never used it.

We have spent up to 8 months at a time living aboard, underway or at anchor except for fueling and an occasional overnight at a pier. Our present sailboat is 47 feet. It has a windlass, a 55 pound Delta and 200 feet of chain as the primary and a 45 pound CQR, 35 feet of chain and 600 feet of rope as a secondary. They are catted side by side on bow rollers. I won’t even tell you about the storm anchor and various kedging anchors.

George
 
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