flapbreaker
New member
I have a Honda90. Was wondering if it's recommended to buy the honda oil or has anyone had success finding the proper oil at the autoparts store.
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Outboard Oil -
- Thread starter flapbreaker
- Start date
flapbreaker
New member
Thanks for the info. I did read the manual but just wasn't sure if the EA rating was unusual enough that it would only be carried by dealers. Sounds like I'll make a trip to costco. Thanks.
We had a Honda 90 on a different boat for several years and now use a Suzuki 90 on the C-Dory.
Right or wrong I like to use Mobil 1 synthetic oil in both the Honda and Suzuki motors. Yea, it's a little more expensive, but if you do most of your own oil changes it balances out. I also find that the somewhat extended oil-change-interval makes me a little more at-ease if I don't get to change it right on schedule.
Likewise, there are some very good oil filters that are not the pricey Honda or Suzuki filters
Casey
C-Dory Naknek
Right or wrong I like to use Mobil 1 synthetic oil in both the Honda and Suzuki motors. Yea, it's a little more expensive, but if you do most of your own oil changes it balances out. I also find that the somewhat extended oil-change-interval makes me a little more at-ease if I don't get to change it right on schedule.
Likewise, there are some very good oil filters that are not the pricey Honda or Suzuki filters
Casey
C-Dory Naknek
By far the best oil you can use in your engine (any gas or diesel engine of any size) is Delo400. I do not claim to be an expert on many things, but engine oil is one thing I am. I have been using Delo400 for 34 years in over 50 different engines and have never had one wear out. I have gas engines with over 300,000 miles on them and still running strong. Delo400 made by Chevron is a little more expensive than most oils but well worth it. It is a high detergent oil and can be used in any gas or diesel engine.flapbreaker":3oino1ll said:I have a Honda90. Was wondering if it's recommended to buy the honda oil or has anyone had success finding the proper oil at the autoparts store.
If your engine is dirty inside (sludge buildup) do not use Delo400 because it will clean the engine and that sludge can cause problems when it is released in the engine. If your engine is fairly new then you should be OK using Delo400. Once you start using it, do not use any other oil in it ever again and if you have to add oil, only use Delo400. Do not mix oils. Replace your filter every time you change your oil. You do not need an expensive fancy filter. You do this and you probably will not wear your engine out.
I always add 50% to doubling the miles or time or the manufactures recommended engine oil changes. However, I wouldn’t recommend this for anyone else.
Delo400 is sold by most Costco stores as well as most automotive and marine stores.
flapbreaker
New member
Thanks, oldgrowth. So as far as the filter goes, I suppose that's still a dealer item right? Not sure where I will find a non-fancy filter at the dealer though. :wink:
flapbreaker
New member
Napa was able to look up my Honda in a book and had the oil filter in stock. It was $7. Not sure what the dealer would charge.
I was going to buy some chevron Delo400 oil as oldgrowth suggested but they only stocked 10W-40, SAE30, SAE40. I'm no oil expert so since I didn't see any 10W-30 I didn't buy any.
I was going to buy some chevron Delo400 oil as oldgrowth suggested but they only stocked 10W-40, SAE30, SAE40. I'm no oil expert so since I didn't see any 10W-30 I didn't buy any.
flapbreaker - Wix filters are some of the best filters made. They make filters for NAPA and NAPA re-brands them as their own filters.
You can substitutes DELO400 10W-40 for 10W-30. In fact, I prefer 10W-40. 10W-40 lubricates better at higher engine temperatures than 10W-30 and does just as good as the 10W30 at low temperatures. In an outboard up here, I doubt you would need the 10W-40 but I have some heavy-duty engines operating at high temperatures and I don’t want to have to stock several viscosities of oil. As I say, I use it in everything.
You can substitutes DELO400 10W-40 for 10W-30. In fact, I prefer 10W-40. 10W-40 lubricates better at higher engine temperatures than 10W-30 and does just as good as the 10W30 at low temperatures. In an outboard up here, I doubt you would need the 10W-40 but I have some heavy-duty engines operating at high temperatures and I don’t want to have to stock several viscosities of oil. As I say, I use it in everything.
flapbreaker
New member
Oldgrowth, sorry to be a pain but I was wrong about the grade avialable. I said I could get 10w-40 but it's 15W-40. Any problem with running that grade?
flapbreaker - No problem at all. The numbers represents the lubricating ability of the oil. 15 - it lubricates as a 15 weight oil when it is cold. 40 - it lubricates like a 40 weight oil when it is hot. You would never need oil lighter than 15 weight, unless your were in really cold conditions, but then the water would be ice.
I am suprized that so many would chance not having the very best oil. The oil sold by Honda must be the best for their enguines or they would not put their name on it. This goes for any other maker of outboards I am sure.
The small difference in price just does not seem to justify the chance that you do not have the best for your outboard.
Fred and Pat Messerly
The small difference in price just does not seem to justify the chance that you do not have the best for your outboard.
Fred and Pat Messerly
I don't know anything about oil for outboards but here goes...
On motorcycle forums "the best" oil is a source of contention & lively discussion. One thing that has become apparent from my studies is that oil branded by the motor company is quite good but you tend to pay for the name. There are comparable oils for somewhat less money or superior synthetics for a lot more money.
There is a whole lotta hype involved in marketing oils. Many brands that claim to be full synthetic aren't, thanks to a court decision. Mobile 1 and Amsoil are two true synthetics that rate highly in objective tests.
Somewhere you have to factor in the bang for the buck, is $6 a quart worth it?
FWIW I run Amsoil in my modified Harley.
On motorcycle forums "the best" oil is a source of contention & lively discussion. One thing that has become apparent from my studies is that oil branded by the motor company is quite good but you tend to pay for the name. There are comparable oils for somewhat less money or superior synthetics for a lot more money.
There is a whole lotta hype involved in marketing oils. Many brands that claim to be full synthetic aren't, thanks to a court decision. Mobile 1 and Amsoil are two true synthetics that rate highly in objective tests.
Somewhere you have to factor in the bang for the buck, is $6 a quart worth it?
FWIW I run Amsoil in my modified Harley.
teflonmom":1ddnz782 said:I am suprized that so many would chance not having the very best oil. The oil sold by Honda must be the best for their enguines or they would not put their name on it. This goes for any other maker of outboards I am sure.
The small difference in price just does not seem to justify the chance that you do not have the best for your outboard.
Fred and Pat Messerly
Honda does not make a motor oil. The same goes for the other outboard makers. They all buy from the oil companies and not necessarily always from the same company. I will agree most name brand oils are good and will work in your outboard engine. But if you want the best it has to be Chevron DELO400.
If anyone decides to use it, read my first post on this thread.
Here are my 2 cents:
1. Delo 400 is primarily a diesel engine oil for commercial fleets. It is formulated to also meet most gasoline engine specs so that it can be used in mixed fleets.
2. Delo 400 does not come as a 10W-40; it comes as 10W-30, 15W-40, and 10W, 20, 30, 40, and 50 single grades.
3. A 10W-30 does indeed act like a 10W oil at low temperatures and a 30 weight oil at high temperatures. It has what is called a high viscosity index (VI), which means it doesn't thin out as rapidly as a single weight oil as it gets hot.
4. Most multigrade oils achieve the high VI by the addition of viscosity index improvers. These are polymeric compounds that thicken the oil more at high temperature than at low temperatures and thus impart the multigrade characteristics.
5. These polymeric compounds lose their effectiveness (and even break down) at high shear rates. So, while 3. above is true at low shear rates, i.e. in the sump, in the high shear parts of the engine (bearings, cams, piston walls, etc.) a 10W-30 oil does NOT act like a 30 weight oil, but more like a 10 or 15W oil.
6. One of the many reasons that synthetics are better is that they are inherently much higher VI fluids than mineral oils, and so don't need anywhere near as much VI improver to achieve multigrade characteristics (most synthetic 10W-30 oils, for example, don't contain any VI improver). As a result they do not thin out at high shear rates and therefore provide a thicker lubricant film.
7. It is a myth that high detergent oils should not be put into a dirty engine because they will loosen the dirt and cause problems in the engine (any more than washing very dirty hands will block the drain). First, ALL oils meeting the latest API specs are almost by definition high detergent oils; diesel engine specs call for slightly higher detergency because of diesel soot, but the difference is slight. So, unless you've been buying your oil in outer Mongolia, you've had a detergent oil in your engine all along. Second, detergency means that the oil solubilizes the sludge and keeps it in ultrafine suspension; it doesn't loosen up big chunks of sludge (which would be caught in the filter even if it did). This myth comes from the good old days of yore 30 years or so ago when detergent oils were first introduced. If you're still concerned, just change out the oil a little sooner the first time.
8. All reputable engine oils are so good nowadays that if one uses the recommended oil viscosity, changes the oil regularly, and does not let it run low, car engine lives of 2 - 300,000 miles are readily achieved. The greatest problem is that many of us don't do that.
9. Honda's oil is of course not made by Honda, but it meets all the appropriate API specs and will provide excellent service within the constraints of 8. above. It is a high detergent oil.
10. My own preference is to use a synthetic oil because I have seen first hand their superior performance and I believe it more than justifies the additional cost. In my cars I extend the recommended oil drain interval by a factor of 2; in my Honda BF130 I change the oil at 200 hours as called for. Although any reputable true full synthetic oil will be superb, for reasons made clear below, I use Mobil 1. I sold my last car at 205,000 miles, and my three current vehicles are at 145,000, 128,000, and 100,000 miles, respectively. None have had engine failures of any kind. The BF130 is now at about 520 hours.
11. The basis for my opinions above is my 30 years with Mobil Oil, including 15 years in fundamental lubrication research and 15 years in lubricant (automotive, aviation, and industrial) product development. I managed the Division which, for example, developed (and continues to improve) Mobil 1. I retired 10 years ago.
Patrick
1. Delo 400 is primarily a diesel engine oil for commercial fleets. It is formulated to also meet most gasoline engine specs so that it can be used in mixed fleets.
2. Delo 400 does not come as a 10W-40; it comes as 10W-30, 15W-40, and 10W, 20, 30, 40, and 50 single grades.
3. A 10W-30 does indeed act like a 10W oil at low temperatures and a 30 weight oil at high temperatures. It has what is called a high viscosity index (VI), which means it doesn't thin out as rapidly as a single weight oil as it gets hot.
4. Most multigrade oils achieve the high VI by the addition of viscosity index improvers. These are polymeric compounds that thicken the oil more at high temperature than at low temperatures and thus impart the multigrade characteristics.
5. These polymeric compounds lose their effectiveness (and even break down) at high shear rates. So, while 3. above is true at low shear rates, i.e. in the sump, in the high shear parts of the engine (bearings, cams, piston walls, etc.) a 10W-30 oil does NOT act like a 30 weight oil, but more like a 10 or 15W oil.
6. One of the many reasons that synthetics are better is that they are inherently much higher VI fluids than mineral oils, and so don't need anywhere near as much VI improver to achieve multigrade characteristics (most synthetic 10W-30 oils, for example, don't contain any VI improver). As a result they do not thin out at high shear rates and therefore provide a thicker lubricant film.
7. It is a myth that high detergent oils should not be put into a dirty engine because they will loosen the dirt and cause problems in the engine (any more than washing very dirty hands will block the drain). First, ALL oils meeting the latest API specs are almost by definition high detergent oils; diesel engine specs call for slightly higher detergency because of diesel soot, but the difference is slight. So, unless you've been buying your oil in outer Mongolia, you've had a detergent oil in your engine all along. Second, detergency means that the oil solubilizes the sludge and keeps it in ultrafine suspension; it doesn't loosen up big chunks of sludge (which would be caught in the filter even if it did). This myth comes from the good old days of yore 30 years or so ago when detergent oils were first introduced. If you're still concerned, just change out the oil a little sooner the first time.
8. All reputable engine oils are so good nowadays that if one uses the recommended oil viscosity, changes the oil regularly, and does not let it run low, car engine lives of 2 - 300,000 miles are readily achieved. The greatest problem is that many of us don't do that.
9. Honda's oil is of course not made by Honda, but it meets all the appropriate API specs and will provide excellent service within the constraints of 8. above. It is a high detergent oil.
10. My own preference is to use a synthetic oil because I have seen first hand their superior performance and I believe it more than justifies the additional cost. In my cars I extend the recommended oil drain interval by a factor of 2; in my Honda BF130 I change the oil at 200 hours as called for. Although any reputable true full synthetic oil will be superb, for reasons made clear below, I use Mobil 1. I sold my last car at 205,000 miles, and my three current vehicles are at 145,000, 128,000, and 100,000 miles, respectively. None have had engine failures of any kind. The BF130 is now at about 520 hours.
11. The basis for my opinions above is my 30 years with Mobil Oil, including 15 years in fundamental lubrication research and 15 years in lubricant (automotive, aviation, and industrial) product development. I managed the Division which, for example, developed (and continues to improve) Mobil 1. I retired 10 years ago.
Patrick
Patrick, thank you for taking the time to explain oils and their various characteristics. Much of what you said matches my own experience and knowledge of oils, dating back about 30 yrs. I worked at a Standard Station (factory Chevron) for 5 yrs while I went through Engineering school. Chevron provided excellent training on their oils which included a lot of what you said about viscosity, breakdown and sludge. Way before synthetics. I also did a term project on oil viscosity in my hydrodynamics class. Breakdown under high stress or longevity wasn't tested, but various viscosity indexes at a range of temperatures was accurately tested, graphed and reported.
I have 180,000 on my Jeep Cherokee, always used Castrol 10-30 or 10-40, but change it and filter not more than 6,000 miles (most freeway). I have recently changed to Mobil 1 for both my Harley and Yamaha outboards simply because I think it is a better oil and costs about the same when you add "Harley" to the name or "marine" to the application!
Thanks again.
I have 180,000 on my Jeep Cherokee, always used Castrol 10-30 or 10-40, but change it and filter not more than 6,000 miles (most freeway). I have recently changed to Mobil 1 for both my Harley and Yamaha outboards simply because I think it is a better oil and costs about the same when you add "Harley" to the name or "marine" to the application!
Thanks again.
Patrick,
I certainly agree. Mobil 1 (sometimes Amsoil) all the way - my land vehicles all go 200k miles+ and only synthetic used in outboard and inboard engines. I use a secondary bypass filter system in the trucks (probably a waste), but the oil looks super-clean at change time. 10,000 to 20,000 bucks for an outboard and using cheap oil just doesn't fit my budget :lol:
Dusty
I certainly agree. Mobil 1 (sometimes Amsoil) all the way - my land vehicles all go 200k miles+ and only synthetic used in outboard and inboard engines. I use a secondary bypass filter system in the trucks (probably a waste), but the oil looks super-clean at change time. 10,000 to 20,000 bucks for an outboard and using cheap oil just doesn't fit my budget :lol:
Dusty
willhave1day
New member
Dora~Jean":26je1s0t said:I cross-referenced my '03 Yamaha 80 filter at Kragen. I use Fram's highest quality equivalent to model PH6017A (Yamaha 3FV-13440-10). I change the filter with every oil change. Another equiv is 5GH-13440, don't know mfr.
Some good discussion from an amateur about oil filters (even though it is car related)
http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilterstudy.html
I have experienced 2, and have heard from others in my car club, about Fram filters disintegrating. 10 years ago part of a Fram filter broke up and was found clogging a crank bearing oil journal of my engine, the crank siezed for a moment and threw the bearing cap out of the block. Fram was un-responsive to the pictures I sent.
As recently as 6 months ago I helped a friend drop his oil pan after he discovered there was no paper left in the Fram he was replacing during a regular oil change. YMMV
A
Anonymous
Guest
Currently i am a Royal Purplite, but have run Delo400, Mobil 1 and others in my Chevy's over the years and dont get rid of them until they go over 200,000. Some have gone way over and I think the reason is diligence in maintenance. Next season I will have sufficient break in time on the 150 Honda and will change it over to Royal Purple as well. Mike on Huda Thunkit :roll: