Fuel Pick Up - LONG story

S

SGIDave

New member
Hello All,

Last week I experienced a fuel delivery problem with on my boat such that I could run my Honda 135 at no more than 2000 rpm otherwise the engine would sputter/stall as if out of gas. I'm neither a savvy nor experienced boater. This turned out to be a learning experience for my family and me. Maybe someone else can avoid a problem such as this...

This was the scenario: We boated approx 30 miles through ICW and other 12 miles around St Joe Bay without trouble. We cruised at least half that time at 4000 rpm. We departed Port St. Joe Marina for home (Apalachicola) on a low port tank; my intention was to switch to the full stb tank en route. Approx 5 miles into the trip home, the engine sputtered as if out of gas. This was anticipated; I switched the fuel selector to stb tank (as I had done many times in the year I've owned this boat) and we cruised on....for about a minute. Then the engine began to sputter/hesitate as if starving for fuel. I squeezed the fuel bulb; after 2 squeezes it stayed flat. I triple-checked the proper orientation of the fuel selector valve. If I switched the fuel selector back to the empty port tank, the fuel bulb immediately re-inflated. It appeared there was a problem with delivery of fuel from stb tank to engine....

I drained the fuel filter from that clear bowl at the bottom of the separator/filter...no water but a few specks of dark material. Fuel filter was last changed in April 2009 about 20 engine hours ago. The fuel filter element and bowl assembly was tight - no air leaks. After a while I got out my spare fuel filter and changed that without improvement in the engine's ability to exceed approx 2000 rpm.

We limped home making 8-10 mph...depending on the current. As long as I didn't get in a hurry and exceed roughly 2000 rpm, the engine ran fine.

NEXT DAY: At Wefings, the mechanic diagnosed the problem as a faulty fuel pick up in the stb tank. Upon removal, the pickup consisted of an semi-rigid piece of white plastic tubing with a slight kink or bend in it. The distal end of the pick up tube was cut at 90 degrees and appeared to suffer from flow restriction due to being flat against the bottom of the fuel tank. The pick up tube was cut an 45 degrees and re-assembled. I took the boat home and pulled the (still empty) port tank which showed the same 90 degree cut fuel pick up tube but lacked a tell-tale bow. I cut it an 45 degree as well.

Boat now runs fine.

Has anyone run into fuel tank pick problems causing lack of fuel delivery to the engine/s? Does anyone routinely pull their fuel pickups to make sure something like this is not likely to happen (i.e., no 90 degree cut tubes stuck up against the bottom of the tank thereby causing a fuel restriction/obstruction)? This was all new to me.

/david
 
Dave,

I usually need to look at a picture rather than read a description but in this case, your description was explained very well. It totally makes sense, thanks for the heads up.

So far, we haven't had this problem but now I'll know what to look for.
 
Several of us have had to swap out fuel pickup's. In my case the antisiphon valve was sticking a bit causing a noise that sounded like arcing electricity. I suspect this would have ultimately led to fuel starvation. As soon as I replaced it the noise was gone. I was fortunate to notice the symptom before I ended up without a running engine.

Glad you were able to limp home with at least some fuel flow and get the problem solved.
 
We have a 06 venture (cape cruiser) We have had problems with fuel pickup from the get go last april 08 WE replaced fuel pickups took out the one with 3atmospheres anti siphon valves and replaced the little ball bearing springs anti siphon valves with free flowing pickups usually used for Outboards The pickup valves that were on ours are usually for I/O mercruiser style eng.We also had to cut our tubes at a 45 degree angle . I guess they put those in for liability issues??WE also have a 10 micron water sep that gets changed out every 100hrs along with all filters and oils. We have been able to get about 28 gallons out of our 30 gallon alum tanks
Also just replaced my navman flow meter with a new one getting about 4.0-4.3mpg at 4200-4500rpm
 
Did you guys have a mesh "screen" filter melted into the bottom of your fuel pickup (hard plastic) hoses? The fuel pickups on my Tomcat have this mesh screen with about a 1/4" clearance as I recall at the very bottom. This would preclude the need to cut the 45 degree angle and I was curious if you guys refastened the mesh screens if you had them.
 
There was no screen at the end of the white plastic pickup hose...just a bare hose. I don't think there was an anti-siphon valve either.

When I refilled the "empty" gas tank it took 27.8 gallons to fill the purported 30 gallon capacity tank. Had I not been running on plane maybe the pickup would have been able to aspirate more fuel...?

/david
 
It sounds like there are many different types of fuel pick-ups used in the various models. On the second page of my photo album are pix of the fuel pick-ups that were in my 2002 cruiser. I had to change to new tanks due to one tank cracking. The new tanks came with fuel pick-ups installed and I didn't remove them to check the geometry. I have never come close to using all the fuel in a tank. It would probably be a good idea to do this just so you know the useful capacity of the tanks.
 
There were no screens on my pickup tubes the one's I put in or the one's I replaced .The anti siphon valves are on top the part you skrew into the alum tank they get gunked up in a salt water environment best to replace the whole pickup with ones that do not have these valves .
 
The mechanic that repaired the stb tank did not find an anti-siphon valve on that side. I ask about installing one and, in his opinion, he didn't feel they were worth the potential trouble. In my unlearned opinion, there did not appear to be an anti-siphon valve on the port tank when I pulled it.

/david
 
I just had that happen! I ran out of gas in one tank then the engine sputters a bit I put it in neutral then walk back to the selector switch and turn on the other tank. Well that's when my bulb would fill with air and not fuel. The only reasonable explanation is that is that I was drawing air between the fuel tank and the bulb.

The fuel lines the were in poor condition. I just replaced them. I have not tried it yet but plan on it in the AM. My plan B is a 2 1/2 gal. tank independent of the big tanks I can plug in to nurse it home. Kinda fowls an outing stuff goes wrong.

:amgry

Chris Bulovsky
 
Hi.
After reading about this affiction; I wondered do you have to pull the fuel tanks on a Venture to get the fuel pickups out? I just wondered having an 08 Venture it seems like I would want to cut the pick ups on a 45 degree angle and get rid of the anti siphon valves if they are present. Second question is about removing the tanks. Are the two screws in each of the two angles welded to the bottom of the fuel tanks on the front and the side of the tanks you can see are they the only thing that holds the tanks in place or are they sort of glued down? Thanks in advance.
D.D.
 
On the 06 Venture there are 2 sets of skrews 2in front looking down and 2 skrews looking towards the bilge pump take all 4 skrews out and slide the tanks forward do one at a time Dave you might have the antisiphon valves or maybe not just slide it forward unskrew the pickups and check for the 45angle at the bottom of the pickup The antisiphon valve is built into the alum part you skrew into the tank which also hold the plastic fuel pickup. I just went to the Yami dealer and asked for fuel pickups without the valves (outboard eng) Good Luck run the boat first get as much fuel out as possible
Or if your not having problems leave it alone and fuel up at 1/3 full I would not have messed with it unless I was having problems
 
When I pulled my gas tank it was (nearly) empty which helped from a weight standpoint. You remove the 4 screws in the visible brackets as Jim said. You can leave the fuel fill and vent hoses attached and swing the tank out easily. The fuel pickup on my boat was rigid enough that the tanks had to be swung out to pull the pickup from the tank.

It's a fun little project :lol:

/david
 
I have had a similar problem in the past, not with an outboard but an inboard diesel. I pulled the brass pickup tube out a couple times to clean the gunk out of the anti-siphon ball and while doing it crimped the tube. So I changed the brass out for a piece of hydraulic hose off of a trim tab. And because it is bendy stuff I put a small piece of brazing rod alongside the tube and used heat shrink to hold it in place. That's where the problem started. Diesel softened the heat shrink, the heat shrink slid down the tube, and every time the fuel sloshed across the tank the heat shrink would close off where it was rubbing on the bottom of the tank, causing a vacuum. I had some really bad experiences because of the engine dying at the wrong moment. Like on the Greys Harbor bar, between two tugs in the portland harbor, off of la push in a storm. Pick up tubes are critical. You need the very best.
 
A lot of folks will be discussing fuel related problems in the future as a result of one thing.....ethanol . When ethanol is introduced to our gas tanks it is acting as a pretty good tank cleaner, causing the varnish that has formed on the sides of the tanks to become dislodged and small sheets of it can be sucked to the pick up opening and cause a clog preventing the fuel from flowing from the tank up the pickup. If you have screens on the ends or anti-siphon ball berings in the pickup elbow at the top of the tank these can get clogged as well.

Since most people use water septarator fuel filters and the new four stroke engines all have an additional inline filter I feel it is wise to make sure that the pickup in unrestrictive in allowing the fuel to flow to these additional filters which are located were we as owners can reach them for service.

Therefore I have made it a point to remove the screens and antisipon ball berings from my pickups.
 
Hi,
The reason I wondered about this thread was my boat came with the fuel switch hosed up wrong. I could only get fuel the the motor using the fuel valve selector set on on port. After trying all other possiblities, I contacted my C-Dory warranty department, hey wait a minute thats me. After disconnecting the feed line to the fuel filter I blew compressed air back thru the line at all different selections on the fuel valve. Only port setting was working and blowing air into the port tank. Next I pulled the hoses that ran to the tanks off the fuel valve and blew air into them. They were good. Next I removed the fuel valve, (the wife refused and the dog never listens) After giving it a test in all positions I came the conclusion that gas still tastes bad and the fuel valve was fine. The port tank was connected where the main feed should have been and the main feed was connected to where the port should have been. Reinstalled blow tested all ok now. Makes you wonder about the factory assembly people. I wonder about why the factory would install antisiphon valves and not cut the fuel pick ups on a 45 degree angle since everyone else besides me seems to know about it. This boating stuff really is an adventure. Thanks for the advice, you folks make it so easy. If you guys hadn't had to pull your tanks too I'd have been really pissed off about this. Thanks for the guidance and have a great weekend.
D.D.
 
Hello Dave D.,

You shouldn't feel too alone regarding your boat's fuel plumbing errors.

My boat came with a nice fuel selector switch and a little diagram on the lazerette door showing which way to turn the selector for stb/port/or 'off.' Well, my boat was plumbed exactly WRONG. With the selector set to stb, it was actually drawing off the port tank and vice versa. I simply needed to re-label the valve diagram but it was a little frustrating at first trying to figure out why the "empty" tank was full of fuel.

My fuel gauge selector switch on the dash was reversed as well. That was easy enough to fix but, if the craftsmen at the factory had known what they where doing, why would that be necessary? I guess dyslexia is an equal opportunity disorder :cry:

I've talked to other Cape Cruiser owners with the same fuel plumbing problems; I guess when C Dory got the hulls they also got the fouled up plumbing schematic. What are the odds of that?

/david
 
Dave D.,both boats with the fuel pickup issue were CC built boats . Yours is CD marine group. Could easily be different tanks with different pickup systems and still have incorrect valve plumbing .
Marc
 
HI guys my fuel selecter was backwards also .The selecter when pointing to the eng is starboard tank and pointing down is port tank so I just used a sharpie pen and put diagrams to show which tank is being used . Also tell your friends and wife or(significant other) how to do this .

I still love this boat even with some exaserating moments fuel problems ,elec problems etc .I'm hoping all the gremlins are out of this boat by now .Happy 4th of July get out and use your boat fix it or clean it another day
 
For fuel pick up tube problems go down the list to Fuel Tank Pickup Tube. I think this will cure all problems with fuel pickup tubes. Since I have changed mine in the 22 and now 25 I haven't had any problems. The new pickup tube also allowed me to get 5 extra gal. out of the tank in the C 25.

Ed on "Rambler"
 
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