First Launching

L

Larry Patrick

New member
Packed up truck and boat with everything for launch and putting boat in slip for the season.2.25 hrs drive,Cayuga Finger Lakes. Always packing seems to take forever. Wife backed trailer in ,I took boat over to slip,backed into assigned slip.My last boat 19ft Montauk with fly by wire controls was so smooth between neutral green light came on in neutral ,forward and reverserse. Just bumping it in and out of gear was easy and smooth ,easy to go slow . Finding the 150 Yamaha a little more agrresive when throttling in and out of gear,wonder if there is anything that would make it smoother,the idle seems correct. Maybee it is just the way it is ,not sure ,any suggestions?Anyway met a lot of nice couples on pier ,wife wrote down about ten couples names to try to remember them next time. Took boat out couple miles anchored out .jumped in for a swim,50 degree water shocked me back into boat pretty fast 300ft lake takes a while to get to swimming temp. Received about 3 compliments on boat,one guy with a 27ft sea scape always wanted one he said. I was thinking with all that space and nice looking boat surprised he said that. Were the smallest boat on pier. People want to help you grab a line to make getting in slip easier a lot of friendly folks. We got caught in a thunder storm headed for slip with wipers on,spent 2 nights there. Went to restaurants in Ithaca in evenings. Thunder storms rocked the boat some last night,wife felt it even later in day like she was on boat. Left boat plugged in with auto bilge on, just incase since its not self bailing. Put slanted cover on to shed water. Does anyone usually leave their auto bilge on,or rely on water not getting into boat with canvas? Trying to get organized to have things tucked away and have open space,looking forward to next weekend,and try some trolling landlocked salmon and lake trout.
 
Larry, sounds like you enjoyed your first cruise on the new boat. I've never had a Yamaha O/B but I appreciate the confidence that a smooth shift instills in the captain. One thing I love about my Volvo is that it idles and shifts quieter and smoother than any boat I've ever owned. Big improvement over my last Mercruiser. I hated the ignition interrupter switch that Mercruiser uses.

As for the bilge pump - leave it on! Do not rely on the canvass to keep water out. Years ago I came to my boat one weekend and found a disturbing amount of water in it. The canvass did not keep all water out and even though the pump was on, the float switch failed and did not activate the pump. This is one reason that I now install 2 pumps on my boats.

Regards, Rob
 
Congrats on the first cruise. Great to get under way.

As to the bilge pumps: If you leave it in the Auto position, it's good to leave it plugged in. In some camps, the bilge should be wired directly to the battery in an Always on Auto mode. So you have "always on auto" OR "manual On". there is no "Off".

In another camp, (I admit to being in this one), The power to the bilge pump(s) is off when the battery switch is off. If I want a bilge in the "auto on mode", then I leave the battery switch on. This would work if I was at a dock and could leave the charger plugged in, or since I store my boat inside, it makes sure that when I am away, there is nothing that comes on to drain my battery when I'm not looking.

When I am on the boat, running, or sleeping, the bilge pump switch is always in the "auto ON" position.

Harvey
SleepyC:moon

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Hi Larry!
There is nothing elegant, quiet, electronic, digital, or high-tech about big primitive dog clutch spinning gears crashing into each other separated only by oil (on a good day) in the Yamaha F150. It will not be an inaudible 'click'. Try to shift very quickly without any grinding, but it takes practice and there is no substitute for 500 hours of running it. Some prop rattle at idle in gear (650 RPM, not adjustable) is normal and prop-dependent, just increase RPM by 100 and it will stop. This is worse with a heavy stainless prop and intolerable with some (Merc Rev-4, for example, which would otherwise be a great prop for a TomCat). If you are running a non-Yamaha prop make sure you've got the Merc Flo-Torq 2 hub (Flo-Torq 4 and Yamaha SDS hub is only for 6 cyl, F150 is a 4 cyl). I bet your experience is normal, but ask a nearby F150 owner to verify that your 'clunkiness' is normal ...they are everywhere for a reason. Ken at PropGods.com is a great resource too.

Your bilge pump should be wired to come on only if the float switch activates it (not constantly on running dry); bypass the battery switch (so it can never be cut off when the float switch activates due to high water); and no fuse is required (unique to bilge pumps...to date there are no reports of a bilge pump causing an electrical fire) just to clarify. I therefore differ from Expert boater Hardee re this (which is very unusual, and due to the fact that he knows his boat better than I do mine...so far). If I left my battery switches 'on' in the PNS marina while away for a week (our normal) , the marina power could fail, my batteries could be drained by the 'smart' fridge automatically switching over to 12V with loss of 110v shorepower, (or other circuit), and then heavy rains or a leak could sink my boat. The stereo and network also run off fuses without a on/off switch and could do the same. I have not yet traced out all the circuits so there might be others that stay 'on' that I don't yet know about. I DO know the bilge pumps are wired to bypass the battery switches (but there are 2 '24/7 bilge pump' LED'S on the Blue Seas panel warning of this with 15A circuit breakers).
Reasonable C-Brats would say, "Why not just pull the DC fuses for the fridge, the stereo, and the network when you leave the boat in the marina each Sunday, and all should be fine?". It's because I'm a SAC trained killer ex-USAF flight surgeon at heart, even to this day, and I'd rather know every potential 12v drain is dead (x bilge pumps) until I get back on the boat and make those circuits live.
Harvey, hope to meet you on the water some day and drain your brain of boating knowledge!


Happy boating!
John
 
Thanks for answers,do notice a little grinding if im not fast enough from neutral to forward. I left auto pump on and shore power plugged in,dont like it cycling every several minutes even when no water is in there. Just put 2 lifeline AGMs ,and want to take good care of them,never thought about marina losing power ect. Its wired with perko in off position bilge still works on auto. Its nice marina ,and over by picnic area they have a bunch of plastic docks,perfect for practicing docking. Last weekend went there first pulled in and backed in several different spots ,planning on that extra practice every time.
 
Larry,
If you can afford LifeLine AGM batteries, you can afford to replace those awful (by all accounts) 'auto-sensing' bilge pumps with Rule Gold (5-year warranty) bilge pumps and float switches and sleep through the night without them ever coming on.
cheers!
John
 
Larry, I agree with John about the Rule "auto sensing" pumps. My boat came with one and it is uncanny how noisy it sounds in the cuddy when you are trying to sleep! I rewired it to my battery switch(start battery position). I then added a Rule1500 with a good old fashioned float switch and wired that one to the switch as well(both or combined position). According to other forums I have read the auto sensing draws very little power and they say it would take months to drain a battery.

It would be unlikely that a marina would loose power for the full week you were away but individual boats could (tripped breaker, etc.). On my boat for example - if power is lost the GFI must be physically reset before power is restored. However draining your battery and damaging it might be a cheaper fix than raising your boat off the bottom or even water damage from being partially submerged. I suppose if a low voltage alarm was installed and the pump drew the voltage down enough - marina staff might hear it and give you a call. I'm not too familiar with stand alone alarms, but I know my Trace Inverter can be monitored and controlled from remote locations(forget whether it is through phone lines or the internet).

If you are installing a second pump some put a smaller pump low in the bilge and the larger pump higher. This keeps the more expensive pump higher and drier. The smaller dia. hose of the small pump also helps keep the bilge drier because less water flows back when it shuts off.

I have to disagree with John regarding fuses though. The positive lead should have an inline fuse installed close to the battery. Wiring and fusing should take into account the pumps maximum amp draw under full load.

Harvey, if you like fire boats - I have a picture of the oldest operational fire boat in the USA. You can find it in my Welland Canal album.

Regards, Rob
 
Gulfcaost John,

Thanks and I'd love to meet up sometime too. As I mentioned, there are 2 camps. I'm also in the one that agrees that even the bilge pump wire should be fused. I too, never thought about a marina having a "no power" situation for a week. Since I keep my boat in inside storage, I can be comfortable with leaving it for days or weeks at a time if needed, and not have to worry about needing to dewater.

We should all know our boats as well as you do. I'm working on that.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

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Lots of informed expierence,will be changing to rule gold pump and float switch. Wanted good batterys,my last dekas didn't last ,but three years in truck camper. Does auto bilge work cabin bilge ,I think, because the stern bilge has different switch,next time it rains will turn on auto pump see if it pushes stern water out. Just wondering if stern bilge is not hooked up to auto,guessing when water enough water gets in cabin bilge pushes it out? After rain storm this past weekend ,flipped both switches at different times trying to remember,think stern pump pushed out a gallon or so.But cabin pump nothing came out. Im on the learning curve so thanks for answers that most already know.
 
Larry,
Both the stern bilge and the cabin bilge only work with the original dash switches. They will only work when someone turns the switches to on. That is the way the boat came from the factory. The separate bilge switch panel that has off on and auto is for the second bilge pump I installed so if the boat was left in the water the auto bilge should function. Why not turn it to auto and add some water to the bilge area to see if it is working properly. Don't let anyone fool you float switches also have been know to fail. Plus in a Venture 23 there is not a lot of room in the bilge area for float switches unless they are built into the pump itself. Since the cycling of the bilge while you are connected to shore power should not be a problem if the battery charger is left on. When I slept on the boat I did not leave the auto bilge on hence the off position. Some folks talk of being bothered by the bilge pump cycling. My suggestion would be to enjoy the boat for now getting used to shifting the engine from reverse to forward. Work with what is there and come winter make changes then based on your experience. You can make yourself crazy trying to make changes one after another that may or may not be necessary. Just my 2 cents.
D.D.
 
Larry Patrick":1l813lf5 said:
Thanks for answers,do notice a little grinding if im not fast enough from neutral to forward.
Click to expand...

You may already know this, but I mention it as it seemed somewhat counter-intuitive to me at first. That is that when shifting in and out of gear on an outboard (at least a typical one - who knows what sophisticated things have come out recently...) it's best to go fast and let 'er clunk. The first time I shifted a "big" engine with remote controls (ha ha, just a 9.9, but I grew up with smaller outboards) my buddy let me know that "feathering it" was not the way to go and I should just get it done fast.

Later I read more about it here (I think in a post by Les/EQ) and it's because the .... forget what they are called... maybe dogs or clutches... are square and so you just need to let them find their place - "feathering" it just wears on the "points" of the squares (if I remember those details correctly).

I'm thinking you may already know all this, but I figured I'd mention it. Your previous engine sounds like it was really smooth.
 
Good to know about getting it in gear fast.,just spent 3 days on boat,getting used to these controls as I use it more. I guess my last boat controls were awesome for slow with control in and out of gears,maybee it was the fly by wire,dont know but loved the way it nudged in and out of gear,no grinding. We put up the camper canvas and spent night in some strong thunder storms,but at dock,watched the storms roll by on I-Pad ,and of course looking out at the storm.Water slapping the boat all night. Also dropped anchor several times the other days getting used to getting it to hold,also practicing with radar and auto pilot. One zipper gave us a problem ,had to work it back together about 40 minutes,wont be unzipping that one again. Nice getting more comfortable with everything,backing into slip ect.
 
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