Crabbing area 8-2

L

localboy

New member
M and I took the boat out of Everett yesterday for a day on the water. Noticed a native boat (Tullalips? Probably...) crabbing IN THE CHANNEL. WTF?!?!?!?!?!? This is a navigation channel!!!

As we exited the channel nothing but native crab pot floats as far as I could see northward, towards Port Susan and towards the south all the way to the Mukilteo ferry landing and around the corner down to shipwreck.

I mean they carpet-bombed the ENTIRE AREA! :evil: :evil: :evil: One month BEFORE ANYONE ELSE COULD GET ANY!!!!!! Hundreds and hundreds of pots, raping every male dungy in the area. So be prepared boys and girls. You got screwed again.

Where is that middle finger emoticon?

:roll:
 
at one point they had shut down certain days on the puyallup river to sportfishermen (maybe they still do?) during the pink runs because of the constant altercation between netting tribal members and non-tribe fishermen.
 
This is every single year. Tribes first. No or little enforcement. Over harvest and to many pot.

I have nothing against making a living but this IS a commercial harvest and should included with the commercial harvest not as a separate one.
 
In Washington State as a result of the Treaties the Tribes signed in 1855 with Isaac Stevens, fish and wildlife resources are co-managed. That is, the State manages non-treaty harvest, and the Tribes manage treaty harvest.

WDFW does not have jurisdiction over Treaty crab fisheries. Enforcement is the responsibility of each respective tribe partaking in the fishery. Typically, tribal enforcement staffs outnumber WDFW enforcement by a significant margin (i.e. they have more eyes on the water) and usually include retired law enforcement officers from federal, state, county and municipal jurisdictions. All tribal enforcement officers are required to complete the exact same law enforcement training as any other non-tribal officer.

The non-treaty commercial crab fishery in this area was open from 10/01/12 - 12/16/12, with a 100 pot per boat limit.

This current treaty commercial crab opening in the area is open from 6/1/13 - 6/6/13, with a 100 pot per boat limit.

Both treaty and non-treaty commercial/recreational crab harvests are accounted for to the best of the respective managers ability given limited resources, with the intent of sustainable harvest, i.e. managed conservatively.

The dungeness crabs you buy in the store come from treaty or non-treaty commercial crab fisheries, depending on the time of year.

If your concern is with the recreational share, that's an allocation issue, not a management issue. Tribes get 50%, non-Indians get 50% of harvestable shares. If, as a non-Indian recreational fisherman you don't like the allocation for recreational harvest, take it up with the State Fish and Wildlife Commission, but understand that if the allocation shifts to more recreational harvest the price of crab in the grocery store will increase, and some non-Indian commercial crab fishermen will go out of business.


jd
 
As a sport fisherman I have no problem with the seperate tribal fisheries, BUT, I have a big problem with the numbers game. And the numbers game is all screwed up. That also includes the commercial side of the coin. But we the sport fishermen have been grumbling and complaining for years to no avail. Really don't see a change coming on the horizon.
 
jd thanks for the break down. I know this whole thing is a hot button issue, and I'm not here to add gasoline to the embers. Just posting what I saw and I pondered all night. It is interesting to me that in an area that...uh...leans left of center and preaches on and on about "fair share" and all, to this out of stater this doesn't seem "fair". But in the short time I've lived here, I've witnessed, first hand, how the native tribes use the resources.

e.g. I observed the gauntlet of gill nets covering the access to Issaquah Creek they set; any salmon attempting to enter that creek to spawn had no chance. The nets were set in overlapping patterns and in order to avoid it a salmon would have to literally zig-zag through it. Impossible.

Now I observe this in Everett.

Now I know that jd has first person experience too. And as you posted:
Enforcement is the responsibility of each respective tribe partaking in the fishery...
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To me, the thought that any enforcement is done by LE officers paid by the tribes is...uh...unrealistic IMO. And on this I speak from experience. Any LE person who dared enforcement would soon find himself out of a job in one way or another. Independent enforcement is needed. It's like if analogy of the fox guarding the hen-house. There would be way too much pressure on any enforcer.

Also, does this treaty from over 150 yrs ago have an end? Who does it cover? I mean, if I'm 1/100th native, am I "in"? Just asking because I honestly don't know. The entire process seems ripe for abuse.
 
We ended up cruising to LaConner for part of memorial day weekend, and the tribe was really active that weekend. They seemed to all be going north from the channel entrance in Skagit bay and probably out through the pass.

With as many pots I see littering the waterways everywhere, we still seem to catch plenty of crab each year for my family without much effort. They must reproduce pretty quickly.

The thing only thing that makes me upset is the placement of the pots. This winter, we couldn't troll in our known hotspots because it was littered with buoys everywhere. There is not much consideration for recreational salmon fisherman from the commercial and tribal crab fisherman.
 
PaulNBriannaLynn":klr9zcjb said:
With as many pots I see littering the waterways everywhere, we still seem to catch plenty of crab each year for my family without much effort. They must reproduce pretty quickly.
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I had wondered how quickly they grew because I remember in case inlet we caught them by the dozens, but they were all undersized and returned... locals told us by end of season they were at size. I dont know if that's true but your post reminded me to look it up...

according to Oregon's game dept, it looks like they are mature at age 3, but most of the legal ones are probably 4+ years.

http://dfw.state.or.us/mrp/shellfish/cr ... istory.asp

kind of interesting stuff:


http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/science/public ... s-eng.html
During the fall months, female Dungeness crabs release fully developed eggs-up to a million at a time-from a sack below their abdomen. The females fertilize these eggs and carry them until they hatch at the end of the winter or in early spring. Females can store sperm for up to two years and use it at any time, and can fertilize several batches of eggs following a single mating event.

When eggs first hatch, young crabs go through what is called a zoea stage. During this phase the tiny crabs float in the water column, beginning the moulting process and starting to develop limbs. After about four months, these creatures move into what's called the megalopae phase. Here they transform into what look like small crabs. They become strong swimmers and settle on the sea floor. Juvenile crabs moult many times through the year and move into deeper waters as they grow. Once they reach adulthood, they tend to moult only about once a year.

It takes about two years-and more than 10 moults-for a juvenile crab to reach maturity. After maturing, females grow more slowly because most of their energy is devoted to egg-production rather than growth. Dungeness crabs tend to live to between six and eight years of age.
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sorry to go off topic so much but this is kinda cool

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QIgW639Oog
 
In fact, the treaties do not have an end date. The wording used is "in perpetuity". What the Tribes did in signing the treaties was give up their property rights to all the lands under their jurisdiction in exchange for the right to harvest fish and wildlife resources at their "usual and accustomed grounds and stations" ... "in common with all citizens of the territory".

The courts held that "in common" meant to share the harvestable resource 50/50 with non-treaty harvesters. This interpretation was upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court in 1979.

As per the LE aspect, it's important to understand that every federally recognized Indian Tribe in the U.S. is a sovereign nation in and of itself. To think that "the fox is guarding the henhouse" is to misconstrue the relationship between a tribal government and it's citizens. The relationship is no different than the way non-indian law enforcement works. I can tell you from personal experience that tribal LE works just as hard to catch the bad guys as non-Indian LE, and usually has the advantage of a higher officer/citizen ratio.

jd

I
 
I can tell you from personal experience that tribal LE works just as hard to catch the bad guys as non-Indian LE...
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Good to know, John. I have to take your word for it, as I have neer worked in a rez. As to the treaty, I guess "in perpetuity" means just that. Always interesting when it comes to this. Today I just spoke w/ my barber who's daughter is married to a Tullalip. Seems being in the tribe has many more "benefits" than just crabbing, fishing etc. Like I said; always interesting.

Hopefully, there will still be some dungies in areas 8-1 & 8-2 for us "non-connected" guys to catch, come July. :wink:
 
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