Bruce Anchor Knock-Offs

C

Capt'n Bill

New member
O.K. Based on the wonderful feedback and information that I have received thus far, I have decided to go with the following anchor set-up on my CD 22 :

22-27# Bruce Type Anchor

25-30 Feet of 1/4# chain

As much nylon rode as I can fit in a modified rode locker(will shoot for 600'). For the locker modification, I think that it will be cool to put a plywood wedge shaped door, with hinges on the bottom attached to the top of the current locker and some clasps near the top. Will probably be a challenge though, making a template for that odd shape.

Pivoting Bow Roller

Horizon 600 FreeFall Windlass(Better hurry cause it appears to me that the horizon product line is being discontinued by Lewmar as they do not show it as part of their product line on their website. Maybe being replaced by the Pro-Fish 700)?

A secondary danforth type anchor with 10 to 15 feet of chain and 200' of rode).

Anyways, my question is, now that Bruce has lost their patent, has anybody had any experience with the knock-offs. I've seen several, with at least 2 different Brands being sold through West Marine, a company called Northstar that makes them out of high tensile steel on E-Bay and offers a lifetime guarantee, and another company on E-Bay that makes beautiful, moderately priced stainless ones(looks like a lone craftsman makes them).

Any knock offs not holding as well? Bending or Breaking? Any other bad or good experiences?

Thanks,

Bill S.
Big Island, HI

p.s. Someday I won't be so green and will actually be able to answer some questions. Been studying boating & seamanship manuals like a fiend while waiting for my boat to arrive from Honolulu.




:mrgreen: :mrgreen:
 
Bill,

There are some that say only the Bruce model is worth buying and that the nock-offs are inferior. I looked at those on E-bay and probably would have bought one but could never get any feedback from them - if this is the same place - I think they are made in the Seattle area.

I did buy a nock-off I think from boaters world. I have not had any problems with it. I have the same set-up with about 25ft of chain and 200ft rode. Last Sept. we anchored in Squirrel Cove in Desolation Sound and a blow came through during the night. We went around the anchor many times during the night. We slept soundly and did not drag.

With anchors you just have to read the information, get other's opinions and then select the one you like best and see how it works out.

Good luck,
Steve
 
One thing to be wary of on those "Beautiful ones from Ebay" , they are advertised as heat treated , high tensile 316 stainless. You have to get into the 400 series of stainless before it is heat treatable. A cast 316 variety is not going to be as strong as the High tensile c-35 models being advertised by North star. And no I don't work for them, I have an original Bruce. Mike on Huda Thunkit
 
Unless the price is a problem, I would go for a genuine Bruce.

They were developed to hold North Sea oil rigs.

I have owned two Bruces and never had any failure. The copys could be all right, but I don't want to test copies on my own boat, when I am sleeping!!
 
I purchased a Manta Anchor from Hamilton Marine out in Maine. Its a Bruce style. 16.5#. It works with the factory bow roller on a 22' Cruiser. I really don't anchor much but was amazed how well it holds in sand despite waves and wind. It costs 1/5th the cost of a Bruce.

So far so good with a Bruce knock off.


Chris Bulovsky
 
So...just how does that guarantee work?

a company called Northstar that makes them out of high tensile steel on E-Bay and offers a lifetime guarantee
Click to expand...

Kinda like a parachute...hmmm. Do they pay for damages to the boat and medical payments for the crew and guests..?? Interesting...glad I don't make anchors. :crook

Steve
 
I use a 16.5# bruce style that I bought from WestMarine. It is attached to 40' of 1/4" chain and 200' of 5/8" rode. I have not had any problems with it. Used it on both sandy and rocky bottoms.
 
Capt'n Bill-

You said you're going to use a "22-27# Bruce Type Anchor".

You're moving up 2 sizes from the recommended size from the Bruce chart. Even if the knock-off is only 75% as strong as the original, you should have plenty of margin. (Each anchor is usually approximately twice as strong as the previous one in the series, 2 x 2 = 4x as strong, and 75% x 4x = 3x, or still three times as strong as the recommended anchor.)

But think about it. If the knock-offs were substantially weaker than the originals or seriously prone to failure, would any major retailer handle the product and expose themselves to that liability? Would the manufactuer still be in business?

The West Marine listing for a 22 lb Bruce type anchor built by first class manufacturer Lewmar (Simpson-Lawrence) prices their 22 lb anchor at $69.99, a very inexpensive anchor when compared to the equivalent Delta Fastset 22 at $184.99, or a Fortress FX-16 at $199.99.

Not too hard a choice if it were me!

Joe.
 
Cap't Bill:

Looks like an impressive set up. I also use the pivoting roller, and like it. However, if you go that route, I strongly recommend you make provision for pinning it down so that it functions as a single piece while underway. Otherwise, you will be risking the anchor pounding off the bow of the boat in rough water.

On this aspect, you might want to check out the following threads, which contain posts on this subject. I don't know if others have experienced this problem with the pivoting roller, but I sure did, and it slammed hard enough that, had it been allowed to continue, the roller and anchor would have torn loose from the boat, with a chunk of the bow attached. No degree of chocking would overcome the problem, but inserting the pin sure did.

Good luck.

http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t=2310

http://www.c-brat.net/modules.php?set_a ... _album.php

For an on-line catalog of pins, see

http://www.bigskydistribution.com/
 
Alma's Only-

Nice job of bringing up a previous thread to answer a current question!

It's amazing how many of these recurrent issues there are. I still like your solution to the problems!

As an additional comment, having read over the suggested thread and photos is this: I've never noticed the two problems you've had with my set up-

1. Anchor weight causing the pivoting bow roller to loosen up under way in chop*, and

2. pivoting anchor roller slamming up and down at anchor in steep chop.

I suspect the reason for not having the #1 problem is that 1) the Fortress FX-16 only weighs 10 lbs and 2) has a very long shank which extends almost to the windlass, keeping the load light and holding the roller body in a straight line with the anchor shank. Perhaps the windlass clutch is set up on the Aires 500 tighter too, but w/o tests, who knows?

The reason I think I've never had to deal at anchor with the anchor roller slamming up and down may be 1) usually with all chain out, the weight is so great and, for the most part downward, that it holds the pivoting end down, period, and perhaps 2) I don't get into as steep a chop situation at anchor on a lake as opposed to a large and shallow bay like you have.

Regardless of the reasons, two points come to mind:

1.) reconsidering a problem at a latter date often leads to new perspectives and insights not apparent at the original time, and

2.) these anchoring systems, especially with a windlass involved, have so many quirks and idiosyncracies that

A.) its impossible to anticipate them all

B.) solving them is difficult, takes a lot of time, and new problems often emerge, and

C.) whenever we get a system that really works well, the smart move would be to immitate or copy it. Why try to reinvent it?

The windlass/anchoring system is less like a wheel and more like an automatic transmission. Less of an invention than a developed product. Too many variables and too complex to roll the design dice and have it come up with trouble free shifting the first time.

KISS, KISS / copy, copy!

Unless, of course, you enjoy things just because they're difficult and that's what makes the world fun to you!

* On Edit- Can't tell from re-reading your previous post if your problem with the pivoting anchor was only a #2 type at anchor, or also underway, but I know some folks with heavy anchors, short shafts, and / or weaker clutches will experience this, so I'll leave this post as originally written to help explain the problem that can be encountered.

Joe.
 
Hi Guys,

I have not had these kind of problems on my set-up - bruce type, pivoting roller with chain and rode. When I installed the pivoting roller I did not like the way it would slam down when the anchor was pulled up. I cut a wedge of closed cell foam and glued it between the surface bolted to the deck and the pivoting part. No more slamming.

When it is up and I am motoring in chop it will bounce slightly but not more than 1/4 to 1/2 inch and it is totaly silent.

I have not been anchored in water rough enough to cause the pivoting part to bounce up and hit the foam so don't know how it will act. If I get a chance I should anchor in a shallow area with a steep chop to see if there is any problem. It is good to try things when you have options rather than learn of a problem in the middle of the night.

Steve
 
Looks like an impressive set up. I also use the pivoting roller, and like it. However, if you go that route, I strongly recommend you make provision for pinning it down so that it functions as a single piece while underway. Otherwise, you will be risking the anchor pounding off the bow of the boat in rough water.
I have not had these kind of problems on my set-up - bruce type, pivoting roller with chain and rode. When I installed the pivoting roller I did not like the way it would slam down when the anchor was pulled up. I cut a wedge of closed cell foam and glued it between the surface bolted to the deck and the pivoting part. No more slamming.
Click to expand...

As Joe mentioned, if you are going to go with a 22-27# anchor, you have plenty of margin of error. Then again, for the difference in price, why bother? If you are new to boating, you might as well get used to spending money. One quick way to break yourself in, stand under a cold shower and burn a couple of hundred dollar bills (if you can't get them lit you can improvise and just tear them into tiny pieces).

You may want to rethink the danforth as an emergency anchor. They take up a lot of room and only work well in sand/mud.

Thanks guys,

Lots of good info. on my set-up. It's nice to see that there are already those who have struggled with coming up with my potential problems.

AOnly, I had already been through those threads and looked at your pics, but seeing your explanation in this post of those pics was quite useful. I'll definately keep your solution in mind if I encounter similar problems. Especially liked the pin...a simple, eligant solution. I know that you consider the hoof type tensioner to keep the load off the windlass, but did you also consider using a chain stopper(WINDL#CS-1) in the West Marine Catalog. I've seen them on E-Bay for $23.00. Seems like a simple solution to the same problem.

Steve, I liked your idea of the closed cell foam. I'm sure that I will be doing a lot of anchoring on my own, am new to boating, and will at times be too distracted during the de-anchoring process with everything going on to watch the chain length and slow things down enough before the anchor hits the roller.

Dan, as far as using the Danforth anchor goes, the reason why I went up in size with it, was so that it could function as both my storm anchor and primary anchor. It just so happens that the boat I bought is equipped with a danforth-type anchor now, and I was hoping that it would be suitable for those instances where I wanted to use two anchor in either a bow/stern anchor configuration, or a Bahamian Moor. Your probably right though, may want to use something that will grab in more than just sand/mud. This brings up two issues for me. First off, the secondary anchor needs to be compact & easily stowable. Secondly, for me, it needs to be something fairly light weight since I will be launching it off the stern by hand. I've got a seriously mangled neck which will preclude me from being able to heave a heavy anchor. Any suggestions?

Finally, no real agreement on the Bruce/Bruce knock-off issue. Sounds like it is just best to go with a reliable manufacturer and make sure that it is composed of high tensile steel.

Again, thanks a lot all and if you ever find yourselves on the Big Island and are itching to go out on a C-Dory. Drop me a line.

Bill S.
 
Bill S-

Sounds like you're well on your way to dealing with these issues effectively!

The last comment I'd like to add or reinterate is this:

One of the major reasons for going to the windlass system is to be able to avoid going up on the bow for anchor work for at least two reasons-

1. To avoid the danger of falling off (especially when alone) in heavy seas, and

2. For the convenience of it.

As you develop your system, it's nice (IMHO) to avoid putting in elements that require you to go up to the bow to release or adjust them, as you'll defeat this purpose of having a windlass.

If you can get it to work entirely push button down and back up from the helm, you'll feel like you're getting more of what you were after in the first place!

Joe.
 
This discussion got me worried that the sea bed might be insulted by what I was putting down there, plus a little more holding power can't hurt so I brought home a pair of new anchors today.

anchors.jpg
 
OK, If we're worried by knock offs, please note the Bruce is made in Brazil and the Delta is made in China. Neither inspires confidence in me. I'd be happy to get an American made knock off.

That'd be something new: an American knock off of a Chinese product.

My CQR is cast "made in Scotland", and the Fortress doesn't say "made in China" and neither has let me down.

And I can't compete with that picture. I don't even want to ask.

Boris
 
Geez, it looks like we missed you by three weeks.
Capt'n Bill wrote:
if you ever find yourselves on the Big Island and are itching to go out on a C-Dory. Drop me a line.
Click to expand...
Caryn and I were on the Big Island for last two weeks in March and as I was looking at the calm waters on the Kona side, I was daydreaming about having our C-Dory out on that beautiful turquoise water. We're definitely gonna take you up on your offer the next time we're over there, which could be as soon as next year! :smiled
 
Mark,
Looks like you will have to mount your windless on the dash! Also might be kind of hard to open the front hatch with that thing on deck.

Steve
 
Bill S.

I considered, but rejected, the chain stopper because it doesn’t allow for tensioning of the chain, but merely holds it in place, with some amount of slack. And, I’ve had experience with this stopper, and don’t really like it for use with a windlass. To deploy with a windlass, you would have to pull the stopper pin, and remove the pin and securing plate. That’s two moving parts flying around on the deck, and no matter how you secure them, you can bet that when it really counts, something’s going to go overboard. Then, you’re up that good old creek! And, if they don’t go overboard, you get to reassemble them each time you’ve pulled the anchor. If you try to deploy without removing the pin and plate, the plate tends to get hit by the chain, and bounce back into the locked position. That’s annoying if you’re on the deck with the chain in your hands, but totally defeats the purpose of a windlass if it happens while you’re at the helm.

West sells a chain tensioner (#383540), but there wasn’t enough space to mount and operate it between the windlass and the roller, and I found it fairly hard to release.

I have not had a problem with the pivoting roller while anchoring. In mild conditions, I simply back down to set the anchor, and then leave the roller in the pivoted position, grab the rode between the windlass and roller, feed it through a chock, and secure to the deck cleat. I never allow the windlass to secure the deployed rode overnight. Although many are comfortable doing so, I’m concerned with the conditions which might arise during the night, and also note that using the windlass in this fashion voids the Lewmar warranty. Backing down to set the anchor does load the windlass, but that's about as far as I go.

If I’m expecting bad weather, I’ll use the boat hook to grab the rode at the forward end of the roller, and pull it back to the cleat, leaving slack in the roller side. That way, all force is on the cleat, and none on the roller or windlass. If the forecast is for fairly mild seas, and I'm in the mood, I’ll set the anchor, turn the helm hard to port, give a shot of forward power to pivot the boat, grab the rode with the boat hook, and secure it to one of the stern cleats. You have to be sure not to wrap the rode around the prop, but I’ve never even come close to doing that stunt. And, you’ll find that a stern attachment totally eliminates that annoying sway back and forth you get with a bow attachment.

The slamming which led me to provide for pinning the roller occurred while underway in heavy seas, and might or might not occur in your setup. If it does, pin the roller. Otherwise, don’t worry about it. You might want to go out of your way to test this out, because if you end up with the anchor and roller slamming up and down in heavy seas, and you can’t find calmer water right away, you have a real risk of the whole mess tearing loose, and heading for the bottom with a chunk of fiberglass attached.

As to avoiding having to access the bow, I agree that is desirable. However, since the Lewmar windlass isn’t supposed to be the point of attachment for a deployed anchor, and you need to secure the rode to the deck cleat anyway, I’m not sure how to avoid being on the bow to some extent when preparing to overnight, unless I’m doing a stern hookup. My main concern is what I have to do on the bow, once I’m there. Removing the pin from the roller and removing the snubber rope before deploying, and then securing the rode to a cleat, doesn’t take a whole lot of effort, or put me at any substantial risk. Lowering or raising an anchor by hand is another matter, and avoiding that little chore is the reason why I installed the windlass in the first place.

Let us all know how your installation goes, so we can follow along.
 
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