Any Chem Engineers on board?? (Wallas fuel)

TyBoo

TyBoo

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Staff member
Now don't make fun of me.

I am conjuring up a way to store and carry K1 kerosene in a remote tank, and pump it to the Wallas tank. I have a hatch below the cockpit floor where the batteries used to be that is big enough for a tank that will hold 5 - 7 gallons. Trouble is, I want to be able to flip a switch and pump the K1 from the bulk tank to the Wallas tank under the galley.

My question is about using an easy to find (got one) automotive gasoline fuel pump to move the K1. According to this site, the two fuels are compatible with mostly the same soft materials, so I am guessing the seals and O-rings in the pump will work with the K1. But I am never sure about this stuff.

For the tank, an 18" length of 10" stainless steel 10ga pipe, smashed into an ellipse, with welded end caps will fit and function perfectly. Or, I can even fab up a rectangle tank out of lighter gauge stainless for more capacity in the same length.

All this talk about the Wallas being stingy with fuel is true, I suppose. But I have had mine for just over a year and have gone through about 15 gallons. It is always either off or on high. The existing tank in the cupboard holds 2.5 gallons, and lasts long enough, but it never fails to go empty when Kay is in the middle of cooking and won't allow me in the cabin. Then it is like it's my fault for not checking and refilling prior to dinner. I can store the one gallon plastic jugs in the space where I want this new remote tank, but I am uncomfortable with the flimsy plastic they are made of. It is cheaper to buy the stuff in five gallon cans, which will not stow easily, so I want to pour the whole can into one container fixed on board. Then I want it already plumbed and valved to the existing Wallas tank. I don't know if kerosene goes bad after sitting, but I am sure the way we run the stove it won't sit long enough to worry about.

It would be asking way too much of the little pump on the Wallas to draw the fuel all the way from the big tank. It would be so cool to use an electric fuel pump and an electric solenoid valve to allow filling the tank without ever taking a lid off. Especially cool since I already have the stuff to do it.

So what do you think? Any problems with using a pump and valve designed for gasoline to move kerosene?
 
Mike...your assumption that the Wallas fuel pump won't handle drawing fuel from this type of tank is probably not valid. The Wallas is typically installed this way on diesel powered boats, drawing from the main fuel supply. Check out the Wallas website and/or give Karl at Scan Marine a call.
 
Good point, Chris. There is probably enough tubing coiled up beneath the galley to reach where I want the tank to go. Plus, that would give Kay some more shelf room in the cupboard.

I know the little pump draws the fuel through the long piece of tubing, but I always kind of figured that the coiled up part being above the pump as it is actually created a siphon effect to reduce the work for the pump. To draw it from the remote tank, it would be pulling up hill most of the run. But if the scan guys think it will do it, and you think it would do it, then maybe that's the answer.

It would just be so much more convenient to do all the fuel handling outside the cabin, at longer intervals, than it is to try and funnel the fuel into the tank where it sits, or pull the pickup tube out and carry the tank elsewhere. I am really weird about these simple tasks. My dad used to tell me that I work harder trying to get out of work than it takes to do the job in the first place. He was probably right, but the operators sure like that trait at the mill where I do some of their mechanicin' for them.

Thanks.
 
So what did you do with the batteries Mike?

Does anyone make a small primer bulb you could put in line. Would think that priming would be the toughest on the pump. The drop between the stove and tank would be increased a little but siphoning back has never been much of a problem with my stove. Just a thought.

stevej
 
The main concern is the height, rather than the distance. Some resistance is created in the walls of the tubing, but that's almost immeasurable.

And with a C-Dory, you won't be drawing from any significant depths. As Chris mentioned, a lot of boats that use these units are drawing diesel from their main fuel tanks, which are much lower (and farther away) from any setup on a C-Dory.

Just make sure the whole system is clean, and you regularly change your sintered bronze filter. Just the smallest piece of junk that can get into the fuel pump can really mess things up.

Ken
 
I would think very seriously before I pressurized the fuel line to the Wallas. Just the capillary action in the small fuel tubing along with the small pump in the Wallas should keep drawing fule to the stove. I would think that the Wallas operates with the optimum fuel flow that the designers figured into the equation. To put added pressure into the system just may screw up the works.

How about a call to ScanMarine with just this question. How long of a draw from the fuel tank will with Wallas still operate optimally from.
 
Hey Mike, I think what you need is some more Klean Heat fuel. I have 20 gallons in the garage (C-Lou went nuts when it was going for 4 bucks a gallon). I bring some down to you during the sturgeon trip. :)
 
Thanks, Dan. The difference in elevation between the existing tank and the proposed tank is just a shade over a foot. That Wallas sucks anyway, so it should be OK. The next time I fire it up, I'll uncoil the hose and set the tank out back in the hole. The worst it can do is run out of fuel, and it does that every sixth dinner as it is. Thanks for the research, too. Now maybe I gotta come up with something else to use that fuel pump for.

Ken - You are really going to like that blower fan upgrade. Not only does it fix the other possible problems, but it moves more air. That keeps the lid, surrounding parts, and the counter cooler while still putting the heat into the cabin. Another thing I just did is raise the stove almost an inch so the heater lid air would blow over the teak rail along the front of the counter instead of directly into it. That makes the heat flow through the cabin better, rather than being deflected straight up where it wants to go anyway. If you have the teak trim strip in front of your stove, it's worth considering. I made an oak frame to set it on.

David - Oh, goodness no. The aux pump would only transfer fuel to the existing tank; the Wallas' own system from its tank to the stove would remain intact.


stevej":22f92ff7 said:
So what did you do with the batteries Mike?
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Got rid of them. Went all nuclear.

But just in case the reactor melts down, I have three batteries in the aft port hatch. With the kicker on the starboard side, the boat was always listing at rest. I like it level at rest, and moving the batts did the trick. The trim tabs have a running chance at lateral trim that way. I have two marine crankers (house and main) tied together with a WM combiner. The third battery is an Optima dedicated to the kicker, that also serves as peace of mind for an emergency boost. I didn't like having all them amps right next to the aluminum fuel tank, anyhow.

Jon - You got 22 jugs if you count the two I am giving C-Lou for her birthday. I will save it for you until June, but I really don't think it's worth hauling down to the dock, so you will have to pick it up at the house. Got me a brand new 5g can of K1 today at the local oil distributor. And guess what - it costs less than four bucks a gallon regular price. The stove is working just great with it, and the stink from the KH burnout is almost gone. We'll just wait and see what Mr. Dusty uses in that new Cruiser. If he uses K1, then you might as well switch back and let all your salmon fishing buddies soak their Hoochies in the KH. Maybe it will prove to be good for something after all.
 
First he":iyyktjjc said:
I have been thinking about upgrading and if I did would want a Wallace.
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It is very difficult sometimes, but a guy has to trust them engineers.


Then he":iyyktjjc said:
Hey that's what you get for buying that Euro equipment.
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Besides, the stove came with the boat.

However, in all seriousness (read quick - it won't last!), if I was getting a new boat today, it would have a Wallas in it. The things have a lot of quirks, but they do work very good once you figure them out.
 
dogon dory":20h4a62t said:
So I was wondering how Tyboo Mike made out with the fuel jug back in the lazarette :thup :thdown ????
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I never even tried moving the thing. Guess I got too busy with other stuff. A couple of times this past season I wished I had moved it, though, so maybe this winter it'll get done. Maybe not.
 
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