Adding a burner and sink

[South of Heaven]

I'm gonna be adding a single burner stove and sink to my 19. Here's a picture of another Brat's 19 for reference.



Any tips or suggestions for what kind of burner to get? Do I have to worry about heat dissipation and venting? I'm assuming the base around the burner will be insulated and not get hot; sort of like how those portable propane heaters only get hot in the main area. First I was thinking of just getting a small propane grill and then installing a gunnel mount but I like the clean install of single burner behind the helm.

What about the sink? I'm not looking for an electric setup and water pump. I'm thinking of just having a hand pump system and then a small receptacle for waste water. I'll just empty it myself.

What should I be aware of when drilling/cutting into the seating box (I don't know the proper name for it). I love sturdiness of the box and the storage underneath. It seems like an ideal platform for mounting things. I should have plenty of space for the water tanks. The burner stuff shouldn't take up much real estate either.

Give me some ideas guys!

 

[journey on]

Here's a stove comment. All those stoves seem to be made by the same factory in Korea. I've not seen a difference in any. They burn butane, which you can buy at any Asian store. They are not insulated.

We've, OK, Judy has used one for years to make coffee in the morn. Works great.

Boris

 

[Aurelia]

The sink in that location could work reasonable good. I have seen this picture also but with our bulkhead, we don't really have that placement option.

We are using one of these,

http://www.containerstore.com/s/kitchen ... d=10006448

Paired with a small basin I attached to our cockpit table which swings out from the underside.

The stove does not look like it could be used in that small cubby and I can't really imagine one that would work beyond quick heating of a small water kettle. I would plan to find a stove you like and perhaps store it there, but take it out to the shelf next to it for use.

We use this stove but it is not the smallest option.

http://www.amazon.com/Camp-Chef-Mountai ... B00A0M3B5E

Greg

 

[Aurelia]

I looked into some fancy 12v hot water hand washing stations but also came close but building a wall mounted unit or just using one of these.

http://www.amazon.com/Reliance-Products ... B000FIC6R2

Greg

 

[South of Heaven]

Yeah, it'll be great having a sink onboard. I was just checking some old threads and came across some stuff on having a "thru hull" water exit pipe. Would I be asking for trouble if I put a thru hull to discharge water overboard?? If I go above the waterline that would at least minimize some of my nightmares about drilling into the hull. I must say, it would be nice to not have to deal with dumping the water out myself.

On the stoves: What are the big differences between the propane and alcohol fuels? The propane ones seem cheaper for some reason.

 

[Clewless]

We have a small butane burner that size and it works great. One drawback is that it doesn't want to light when the cabin temp is below 40 degrees. Warming the butane canister in your shirt helps somewhat but ............I'd suggest a duel fuel stove that works on propane and butane for the temperature issue and greater availability of the canisters. This is what I'd get next time:
http://tinyurl.com/jtteghy

 

[South of Heaven]

We have a small butane burner that size and it works great. One drawback is that it doesn't want to light when the cabin temp is below 40 degrees. Warming the butane canister in your shirt helps somewhat but ............I'd suggest a duel fuel stove that works on propane and butane for the temperature issue and greater availability of the canisters. This is what I'd get next time:
http://tinyurl.com/jtteghy

That seems like a great burner. I'm a little worried about the size though. I need the smallest one available; it'll be going inside a custom starboard box. I'll take measurements soon.

 

[potter water]

Butane stoves like those mentioned can be a real fire hazard. There are several O rings in the stove, not just the one that the canister nipple fits into. Those O rings will deteriorate over time and you will be in a major fire emergency. I know from personal experience. If you are careful to add just a drop of plain old 3 in one oil on the spout each time you insert it, the nipple gets lubricated and the other O rings in the system get lubricated and have an extended life.

Also, the canister should be removed from the burner after each use and stored in an outside ventilated area as the butane is heavier than air. I like the butane as it runs really hot, better than propane, but, more care is required when using this type of burner than, say, alcohol.

 

[Clewless]

Good tip about lubricating the stem of the butane canister.

Those O rings will deteriorate over time and you will be in a major fire emergency. I know from personal experience. If you are careful to add just a drop of plain old 3 in one oil on the spout each time you insert it, the nipple gets lubricated and the other O rings in the system get lubricated and have an extended life.

This sounds like worthy story. My stove is only two years old with about 40-50 lights so far.

 

[Marco Flamingo]

I bought one of these at Home Depot when it was $10 cheaper.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Elite-Platin ... /206192805

There is a picture in my photo album with it simply sitting on the standard CD 16 table.

I read on various sites that induction cookers don't work with inverters that aren't pure sine wave. I had an old 800W Coleman modified sine wave (MSW) inverter, never really used, and tried it with the induction burner. If anything, it worked better than 110V home power because the burner was a little too powerful for simmering rice and oatmeal or heating a can of chili. The "inefficiency" of the MSW inverter was just what I needed.

Having now spent several nights aboard, I'm really happy with the system. I usually use it only at anchor, but it is possible to place it on the passenger footwell (when solo) and cook when under way as that low spot is relatively neutral to the boat's motion.

My digital voltage meter shows a drop from 12.6V to 11.5V when it is consuming power, but it is about as fast as a microwave and heating dinner in a pot takes about 5 minutes. The battery then comes back to 12.5 or 12.6 when the burner and inverter are turned off. I used it to cook dinner, had the Espar heater on for a bit, used it to cook breakfast (and had the heater on in the morning), and only dropped my Group 24 house battery to 12.4V. I was afraid that it and the Espar might really suck electricity, but that doesn't seem to be the case and I generally run the burner for less than 10 minutes. I would need to run it longer for rice, but that would be at the lowest setting, so I don't think that will be a problem. And I could always idle the engine for a bit if it became a problem.

No open flames aboard. No flammable gas to leak. No extra moisture produced. No canisters of butane to buy or store. 110V power on board. Cook top stays cool to the touch. No burning of spills. Compact. I like.

I already had the inverter, so that wasn't an expense. I also don't know if every modified sine wave inverter would power an induction burner. And you have to use a magnetic pot, so one of these that works on an induction burner was an extra expense.

http://www1.macys.com/shop/product/prim ... _pos~zPos1

How decadent is that?

Also, if you haven't started building with Starboard yet, take a look at Azek plastic lumber (stocked at Lowe's and others). It's lightweight and, if you get clean cuts, glues together nicely. I've used it for a few projects on board and like the stuff.

Mark

 

[South of Heaven]

That's a slick little induction burner. I like the dimensions of it too, it would fit nicely in the area that I'm planning to put it.

However I don't like the idea of having to power it. I like the ease and freedom of propane or alcohol.

 

[Sunbeam]

On the 22 Cruiser (which comes with a sink), the drain is a through-hull is above the static waterline. On my boat it's in the first non-colored strake, basically centered in the strake. Since there is no holding tank, there is no trap or etc. -- the drain just makes a sweeping curve down from the sink drain to the through-hull.

 

[Pat Anderson]

Pictures are always nice. Here is a picture of Marco's induction burner:

But we are firmly in the butane burner camp. We have one on our RV, one at home, and one on the boat. Good to know about lubricating them, we have never done that and never had a problem, and we have been using them for 10+ years, but better safe than sorry. You should probably pay attention to Harry, the rocket scientist!

 

[potter water]

And, Harry the guy who almost burned Still Crazy up when the butane canister leaked down into the lower cupboard and ignited. Fortunately, I had 3 fire extinguishers on board, and only ruined the burner, and none of the boat.

Incidentally, I was shocked, never having had to use an extinguisher before at how little actual time you get with the typical "boat" extinguisher. After my experience on Still Crazy, I've been buying 3 lb extinguishers for Poopsy and for my camper.

Also, my Bosch dish washer in my house caught on fire and it took all of one 3 lb bottle to kill the fire. Bosch, when asked said, "oh, yeah, those in your serial number range had a manufacturing glitch that lets them burn up." They replaced it with a brand new one for free and were grateful I didn't sue.

Bottom line being, bigger extinguishers are better at home on boat or in camper without regard to where the flames come from.

 

[Marco Flamingo]

I like the ease and freedom of propane or alcohol.

Having now cooked on board over the years with propane, butane, alcohol, white gas, diesel, wood, and induction, I'd say that induction allows the most ease and freedom. Push a button it's on. Push a button, it's off.

Maybe alcohol stoves have improved since I used them. I had to pour a little in a cup and light it on fire to start the thing. Then there was filling the little tank, best done by moving everything out on shore. And you will find out which surfaces are ruined by alcohol, after you have ruined them. And it put out an amazing amount of water vapor. I wouldn't go back to that or a Coleman type white gas stove. White gas has all of the mess and moisture, plus it stinks.

I've used the little butane stoves quite a bit and still have one (plus a bunch of extra canisters because you can think that the thing is off when it is slowly leaking). The canisters are more common now, but still not common enough that you don't need to carry a couple extra. Butane would be my distant second choice on a small boat. The butane unit and a couple extra canisters takes up easily three times the space of an induction burner. Space that is really precious on a 16.

Some day I am going to learn how to put a picture in a post.

Mark

 

[South of Heaven]

I like the ease and freedom of propane or alcohol.

Having now cooked on board over the years with propane, butane, alcohol, white gas, diesel, wood, and induction, I'd say that induction allows the most ease and freedom. Push a button it's on. Push a button, it's off.

Maybe alcohol stoves have improved since I used them. I had to pour a little in a cup and light it on fire to start the thing. Then there was filling the little tank, best done by moving everything out on shore. And you will find out which surfaces are ruined by alcohol, after you have ruined them. And it put out an amazing amount of water vapor. I wouldn't go back to that or a Coleman type white gas stove. White gas has all of the mess and moisture, plus it stinks.

I've used the little butane stoves quite a bit and still have one (plus a bunch of extra canisters because you can think that the thing is off when it is slowly leaking). The canisters are more common now, but still not common enough that you don't need to carry a couple extra. Butane would be my distant second choice on a small boat. The butane unit and a couple extra canisters takes up easily three times the space of an induction burner. Space that is really precious on a 16.

Some day I am going to learn how to put a picture in a post.

Mark

I've never used alcohol/butane but my Mr. Buddy propane heater is so easy. Twist on a 1lb can and go. No fuss.
The induction burner sounds like a good option but I don't wanna add another thing to my electrical system. On top of the normal draws (GPS, FF, 2 bilge pumps, VHF radio), I also have a 4 speaker music system, custom LED surround lights and
other various hard wired units. At this point I don't wanna add an inverter just to be able to cook some fish once in a while.

To your question of "adding pics": It's simple once you get the steps down.
1.Go to your pic album or any pic for that matter and right click on it.
2. Then "copy the image address".
3. When you reply to a post or thread, click on the "img" button in the toolbar in the C Brats box.
4. Then paste the address that cut earlier.
5. Finally, press the "img" button again.

Basically, the "img" should be before and after the image address.

 

[Sunbeam]

Marco,

I don't think very many people would be referring to pressurized alcohol stoves any more (the eyebrow singe-ers it sounds like you were using). These days it's typically referring to an Origo style stove. This basically uses a "pot" of alcohol that's been soaked into a bundle of something (cotton or the like). You just light it. No pumping, no pressure.

I have my preferences (true propane system is my favorite) but still don't see any no-brainer "best" cooking fuel aboard. More like choosing one's preferred fuel, along with it's particular foibles.

The modern (non-pressurized) alcohol stoves are very safe, easy to install (no "systems"), you can store as much fuel as you like, and they are easy to operate. On the other hand there is a slight odor (which some people don't like), it's not quite as BTU efficient as other fuels, and it can be a bit expensive per BTU (but for the amount of cooking most people do on a C-Dory that's probably inconsequential). So I'd say they should be legitimately in the running for anyone considering the various stoves/fuels.

 

[Sea Wolf]

Mark- This photo?

(Caption below)


"This is a $45 induction cooker connected to a 800W modified sine wave inverter.
The lowest setting is a nice simmer and the highest setting could fry.
It doesn't trip the inverter.
It seems to be about a quick as a microwave and no open flame."

 

[Marco Flamingo]

At this point I don't wanna add an inverter just to be able to cook some fish once in a while.

I hear that. I already had the inverter, so that made it a little easier to decide to go with 110V aboard. But I'm trying to get everything to do at least dual duty and I haven't yet found another good reason to have 110V on board.

Here is a recent lunch stop where I cooked some Ramen noodles on my burner. I'm still kind of on topic and get to try posting a picture.



So why is the picture so small?

Mark

 

[Sunbeam]

So why is the picture so small?

Mark

It looks like you are SOOOO close! What I think happened is that when you went to your album and got the "image location," you did it with the thumbnail instead of opening up the full image, which is what you want to do. See how the code you used has the word "thumb" in it? (I left off the img tags so we could see the code).

www.c-brats.com/albums/album2471/101_0600.thumb.jpg

If I do the same thing you did but remove the word thumb, it's nice and big! If you had used the big photo instead of the thumbnail it would have done that automatically.

There is one more option. With some of your photos (depends on how large a file you uploaded, I think), there is a thumbnail, then a "reasonably large" photo, and then a "full sized" one that you get if you click on it a second time. If you have that option, then when you click on the first one (big but not full sized) it will have "sized" in the code instead of "thumb." All that is changing is the part JUST before ".jpg" so just focus on that.

So first is "thumb" which is what you used (because you got your image from the thumbnail and not the larger image).

code without img tags:

http://www.c-brats.com/albums/album2471 ... .thumb.jpg

What shows up if I add the img tags:



Next is "sized" (first stage of larger photo). First without img tags:

http://www.c-brats.com/albums/album2471 ... .sized.jpg

Then with img tags:



And next is the full size (which may not be desired, just depends)

Without tags so you can see the code:

http://www.c-brats.com/albums/album2471/101_0600.jpg

Then with the img tags added:



So again, it's all in the code that's just before .jpg The first one (small one you did) was made from the thumbnail and has "thumb" in the code. The second one was made from the larger image (one click "up" from the thumbnail) and has "sized" in the code instead of "thumb." The third one was made from the larger image you get after clicking on the medium sized one, and has no code where "thumb" or "sized" are on the first two. It's the biggest possible image from your album.

So there are two ways to get the larger images. One is to simply go to your album, click to the size of photo you want (likely not thumb, but the larger or largest size), and use that to copy/paste into your post and then add the image tags. It's all automatic then. The other way is to bring any one of the three over, but remove/add/change the words "thumb" or "sized" or nothing just before the .jpg to get what you actually want to show up. In other words, all three versions are the same code, except for the little bit that says "thumb," "sized" or nothing in that one spot (nothing being full sized) right before .jpg

I tend to use "sized" if there is no special detail that must be seen, just to make sure folks don't have to scroll side-to-side in the thread. But I will sometimes use the largest image if it's advantageous.