22 backup bilge pump install

F

ferret30

New member
Recently while I had the tanks out for cleanup and to do the swim step, I took the time to install a second bilge pump. I didn't want to use any more through hulls, and I don't use the port lazarette as an fish/ice box. So I removed the lazarette to through hull hose and used the through hull for the second pump.

I bought about 4 feet of the bilge hose, 4 stainless hose clamps, a one-way valve, 4 feet each of 16AWG black and red wire, and a waterproof inline fuse holder (5A fuse). I had a spare RuleMate 1100 and a piece of 3/4" starboard.

I cut the starboard down to roughly match the pump footprint, and screwed the basket to the starboard (using stainless screws and pilot holes). I drilled some 1/4" holes in the bottom of the starboard block and buttered some 4200 on it, working some into the holes. I stuck it down on the bilge floor and left it for about 2 hours before hooking anything up.

I wired the pump to the starter battery with the fuse near the positive terminal. The primary pump (existing) is wired to the other battery. The manual override wire (brown with white stripe) isn't used.

The idea for using the starboard block is that the back up pump will only come on if the primary pump has failed, or if there is enough water to activate both. Though the pump isn't connected to the helm switch, it can easily be tested by removing it from the basket and turning it over (the magnetic float switch will turn it on).

2012_09_14_16_32_24_283.jpg
 
Nice work and you make me miss working on a C-Dory. The extra drain plug is a nice touch and I'll bet it feels good to have that gunk worked out of your cockpit. I wish the bilge on my current boat was that easy to work in. Is there any spare space behind the tanks on a 22/19 that could be used for mounting something and how easy is it to pull the tanks out for access to it?

Greg
 
On mine there's enough room behind the tanks to fit the hoses and one of the one way valves. I think the tank back face is more vertical than the transom, so the space is kind of wedge shaped. This space allowed me to install the swim step using through bolts high and low instead of using lag bolts down low like the factory appears to do.

The hardest part of getting the tanks out was working the hoses off the tanks (twisting and pulling). The fuel fill hoses are horrible since they're pretty stiff, only about 16" long, and are bigger than most radiator hoses I think.

The lame part of this backup pump install (I left it out of the first post I think) was that after getting it all installed and wired, was that the pump isn't working well. It is squealing and getting hot when it runs, and it doesn't appear to be serviceable. But it'll be easy to swap in another one when I get around to it.
 
Aurelia":1iduf657 said:
I wish the bilge on my current boat was that easy to work in.
Click to expand...

I forgot to ask, what's your current boat? I remember you sold the 25 and got a C-Dory dinghy, but I'm guessing the bilge on that is wide open!
 
Thats a great idea...and I will copy it if you don't mind.....I salvage boats that were poop ed by a following wave several times a year...you don't have much time to get that water out before the second wave hits and by the fourth wave your a goner... I have 2 pumps now...one under the cabin entry hatch and one in the motor well...but two in the motor well is a better idea...you did a super install.

Joel
SEA3PO
 
I need to install a small pump (maybe 250 gal) with a remote float switch in the bilge channel in the tug.... I worry about shaft leakage or rain filling the bilge in the tug.....

I have a 25 gallon "Gussher" manual pump and a 1000gal electric but the Gusher is a manual pump and the electric pump can not fit deep into the bilge channel.

I keep about a 1/2 cup of bilge cleaner in the bilge, in case I have an oil leak in the diesel...it will break the oil film. Just trying to keep it clean.


Joel with Working Tug "KEA"
 
SEA3PO":2i30p531 said:
Thats a great idea...and I will copy it if you don't mind.....I salvage boats that were poop ed by a following wave several times a year...you don't have much time to get that water out before the second wave hits and by the fourth wave your a goner... I have 2 pumps now...one under the cabin entry hatch and one in the motor well...but two in the motor well is a better idea...you did a super install.

Joel
SEA3PO
Click to expand...

Thanks for the comments, and I'm sure someone else here has already done this, so I'm not taking credit!

Some people have mentioned that it's good to have a higher volume pump than the stock 1100 that a lot of us have, but in order to use something bigger, you tend to have to use a larger hose, and that also means a larger through hull. I'm not interested in making more holes or bigger holes in the hull, and I like redundancy in safety/security systems, so I figure 2x 1100 should be fine for now.

I'm glad the bait box had it's own through hull (that I could 'borrow'), and I don't care if the box drains water onto the gas tank now.
 
One other interesting thing that came up while doing these projects was that my 2006 seems to have a different cockpit construction than many other boats. I noticed when I was looking for alternate tank strap locations that the hull sides around the tanks appeared to be 1" thicker in some places than others. I mentioned this and a few people said they didn't have this characteristic. So I got in closer and took a few pics:

2012_09_13_13_59_18_285.jpg
2012_09_07_12_42_52_327.jpg

In the first picture you can see that the hull wall is thin at the through hulls, but then gets about 1" thicker below and around that area. Interestingly, this thick area seems to be hollow between the hull and inner surface.

Stepping back and looking at the bigger picture, it looks like my raised cockpit floor (non-removable) was actually built like a large tray that extends into the bilge and up the sides of the hull and across the back of the transom. It's one giant piece that was laid on the hull bottom and glassed in. It's a smoother texture than the bare hull insides that are visible up higher, above the lower motor bolts and in the gunnel pockets.

So it looks like in 2006 there were quite a variety of build techniques used by the different owners.
 
I seem to recall that the ABYC recommends against one-way or check valves for bilge pump discharges, due to risk of clog/valve failure. Do most of you install such valves in your setups?
 
Saxe Point":2xjka2sa said:
I seem to recall that the ABYC recommends against one-way or check valves for bilge pump discharges, due to risk of clog/valve failure. Do most of you install such valves in your setups?
Click to expand...
No - for that reason (and the fact that the lessen the flow slightly).
 
Thanks for pointing that out. The primary pump had that backflow preventer on it so I bought an identical one when I bought hoses and clamps for the backup. Unfortunately that means I need to go buy new hoses (again) since the installed ones are in 2 sections. At least the tanks don't have to be out to do this work. I just have to make sure not to drop anything behind them -- they're completely full right now!

So what are these valves used for then?
 
ferret30":pizm4zxw said:
So what are these valves used for then?
Click to expand...

I don't know what other uses they might have, but they are commonly used in bilge pump discharge lines to help prevent backflow that causes water to come back to the bilge. The larger diameter the discharge hose is, and the longer the hose run, the more water can flow back (i.e. after the pump stops, the water in the hose runs back).

In boats with a "proper" sump, most people accept a small amount of water. Boats with stuffing boxes often have a small amount of water in the bilge anyway. On the other hand, some boats have very shallow bilges, and some owners like a "dusty" bilge, so, for that reason among others, backflow can be annoying.

Personally, I still don't like to have a check valve in a bilge pump discharge line, because I feel that they're too prone to clogging or other failure. But some people are willing to accept that. What I do to minimize the problem is use a drying pump that takes a 3/4" discharge hose, and also minimize the hose length as much as practical. These both reduce volume (obviously). (A high point can serve to reduce backflow also.) Then, if the situation warrants a larger pump/hose, I would mount it higher up so it would only come into play when necessary, but not on a routine basis.

I have to laugh every time I read one of your threads, as it seems I'm always doing the same projects :mrgreen: I just got two new bilge pumps and through-hulls, hose, clamps, and a handful of Weld-Mount studs. "Bye-bye" to the old Rule Automatic pumps!
 
Sunbeam":jsllaxvp said:
I don't know what other uses they might have, but they are commonly used in bilge pump discharge lines to help prevent backflow that causes water to come back to the bilge.

...

I have to laugh every time I read one of your threads, as it seems I'm always doing the same projects :mrgreen: I just got two new bilge pumps and through-hulls, hose, clamps, and a handful of Weld-Mount studs. "Bye-bye" to the old Rule Automatic pumps!
Click to expand...

Well the ABYC apparently is against using them in the bilge as I have, so I was wondering what else they'd be for. I have a feeling I could get away with having the valve on the primary pump (keep the bilge dryer), and not use one on the "emergency" secondary pump that is mounted higher.

What type of pumps did you pick this time? Since I have to replace one of my 1100s (the one that's got bad bearings or seals or something), I'm open to picking something else, so long as they'll still work with my through hulls and hose diameter.
 
ferret30":1zrhc5l3 said:
What type of pumps did you pick this time? Since I have to replace one of my 1100s (the one that's got bad bearings or seals or something), I'm open to picking something else, so long as they'll still work with my through hulls and hose diameter.
Click to expand...

I went with a pair of Johnson, one-piece Ultima 500gph pumps. Actually, I first got one of those, and one of the more "usual" Johnson pumps with a separate, clip-on float switch. I was going to use the basic one in the under galley sump area, where it's protected and I don't want to stow anything anyway; then use the "cleaner" one-piece Ultima in the transom sump where I might push fenders, etc. However once I laid out the basic one in the galley sump, I didn't like how either the switch or the pump had to be much further "uphill" due to their longer combined length and the way the boat is built. So I returned it for a second Ultima. I read mixed reviews on these, but since to my mind they are both "drying pumps," and I'll have two, I guess I'll see how I like them. They both take 3/4" hose, which is what I wanted (I have one 3/4" through hull already and am reducing the other one to 3/4" as well).

Sunbeam
 
When I was purchasing items for a backup pump install the dealer told me to get about a foot or so more hose than i figured I'd need and raise and tie a loop of it up immediately behind the thru hull. This might raise the discharge head slightly but it will stop most water intrusion.

Regards, Rob
 
I replaced my bilge pumps last fall/this spring. Wish this thread had been around then. (Oh, there was one, or several) but I don't remember anything about raising the line from that one. I should have put that rise in my discharge line. AS it is, I get a about a quart of back flow. Under the transom, I put in a Rule auto 1500gph connected to a 1.5 inch hose. Its does dump a bunch of water in a pretty good hurry out of that hose. The forward pump, under the door got one of the new Rule Auto's. It is a 1100gpm. That one is the new style with the water sensor switch (not a float switch type,) and it will shut off if it senses oil or gas in the fluid. It was partly because of that reason that I went with the 1500, as it has a float switch, not electronic sensor, and a higher output. With them both working I have 2600 gallons peer hour capability. That's almost 45 gallons per minute. A little less than 2 50 gallon drums. How many of those could you put into the cockpit of a 22 Cruiser? Hope to never have to test them to that capacity.

Enjoy, always,

Harvey
SleepyC :moon
 
Someone mentioned a "dusty bilge" - that is a good thing but pumps should be tested periotically. Mud daubers love crawling into thru hulls. Their mud will restrict/block hoses and could effectively weld shut the door on a one way valve.

Harvey- don't forget pumps are rated at 13.6v, zero head, smooth straight hose,etc. (ideal conditions) In a real life situation their output is less - much less if you lose power and they are running on batteries only.

Moral of the story - don't forget the bucket!! :D

Regards, Rob
 
hardee":zshbmepy said:
I replaced my bilge pumps last fall/this spring. Wish this thread had been around then. (Oh, there was one, or several) but I don't remember anything about raising the line from that one. I should have put that rise in my discharge line.
Click to expand...

Thinking out loud, I'm not sure it's that necessary or beneficial on a 22, but maybe I'm not thinking of something. I can think of two reasons for a loop:

1) To keep the bilge pump from back-siphoning if the discharge may go below the waterline (not spray, but "real" underwater).

2) To manage backflow if a boat is set up such that the discharge hose can rise immediately to a high point, then fall to the through hull.

I think - at least considering where my bilge pump through-hulls are - that if #1 were to come into play, a bilge pump would probably no longer be sufficient. And for #2, I don't see the bilge pump hose runs on a C-Dory really lending themselves to effectiveness. At least in my boat, the after through hull is pretty high up in the hull (so no room for a higher loop), and the 'midships one has a really short hose run already, so not much room to "shorten" it. I may consider making a slight loop from that one since there is room and that outlet is a shade closer to the water line, but I have to wonder if I'm doing it "just because."

It could easily be that other 22's are different, or that I'm forgetting something or using "other style of boat brain," which does trip me up from time to time.
 
I had at one point considered the possibility of putting a through hull immediately above the backup pump, in the splash well. This would either shoot out the back of the boat (big drinking fountain), or at least drain out the splash well drain hole. But then I realized the pumps are pretty strong, and I'd either be shooting the Suzuki (probably in the cowl vents), or I'd have to put on a clam shell that would restrict the flow. Anyway, I think having bilge outputs in to the splash well could be a good option if done correctly.
 
Back
Top