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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Larry wanted the best for his new baby. There is no shame in that.


Amen, Thanks for verifying what you had done. Agree, that there are specific reasons for AGM, (as listed in my post above)--and that often that better results may be with flooded lead acid. Difficulty accessing for checking electrolyte level is a reason for AGM. Also carefully monitor battery charging voltage level is important. The Yamaha 115 I owned for 5 years, had digital read outs, and this included voltage. This may be a way to monitor the voltage at this time--and give us all some feedback on the voltage input to the batteries.

There are multiple sources on the internet, which verify that 14.4 volts is an acceptable voltage even at 105 degrees F.

This is from the Lifeline AGM battery manual:
Quote:
charging voltage bulk and absorption 14.2 to 14.4 volts. Float voltage 13.2 to 13.4 volts. Equalizing voltage 15.5 for 8 hours.


There has been some controversary about equalizing AGM batteries--and it should be done in an controlled environment, including temperature monitoring. My feeling is that using a pulse desulfator on an ongoing basis will avoid having to apply equalizing currents.

In any case, Larry, needs to determine what the steady state voltage is when running the outboards.

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Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
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Home port: Pensacola FL
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Robert H. Wilkinson



Joined: 26 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A precise charging voltage may seem unimportant, but in fact it is a very fine line. Even a tenth of a volt too high and you will heat the battery up and cause it to boil more. A tenth of a volt too low and over time it will begin to sulfate. This is why most battery manufacturers give you a slot of about 2 tenths(14.2 - 14.4). A good battery charger will give you precise control over the voltages.

You must also understand the difference between "actual voltage" and "temperature compensated voltage". If you are viewing actual voltage in the summer it will appear that the batteries are being under charged. In the winter it will appear that they are being overcharged. For example I just checked my battery bank which is being charged right now - the actual voltage(absorption stage) is 13.5 - but the temperature compensated voltage is 14.4 - a charger with a temperature probe does a better job keeping your bank healthy.

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Larry Patrick



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good advise Robert ,I believe you can switch settings on some units for wet cell batterys or AGMs.
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hardee



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robert H. Wilkinson wrote:
A precise charging voltage may seem unimportant, but in fact it is a very fine line. Even a tenth of a volt too high and you will heat the battery up and cause it to boil more. A tenth of a volt too low and over time it will begin to sulfate. This is why most battery manufacturers give you a slot of about 2 tenths(14.2 - 14.4). A good battery charger will give you precise control over the voltages.

You must also understand the difference between "actual voltage" and "temperature compensated voltage". If you are viewing actual voltage in the summer it will appear that the batteries are being under charged. In the winter it will appear that they are being overcharged. For example I just checked my battery bank which is being charged right now - the actual voltage(absorption stage) is 13.5 - but the temperature compensated voltage is 14.4 - a charger with a temperature probe does a better job keeping your bank healthy.


All that for this:


“You must also understand the difference between "actual voltage" and "temperature compensated voltage". If you are viewing actual voltage in the summer it will appear that the batteries are being under charged. In the winter it will appear that they are being overcharged. For example I just checked my battery bank which is being charged right now - the actual voltage(absorption stage) is 13.5 - but the temperature compensated voltage is 14.4 - a charger with a temperature probe does a better job keeping your bank healthy.
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Recently, I have been looking at battery charging and maintenance for both my boat (2 group 29 Deep Cycles) and my motorcycle. A friend who is pilot and has a couple of airplanes to maintain turned me on to some seemingly small and simple “trickle” chargers; actually maintainers.

They are BatteryMINDers, “made byVDC Electronics, Inc. founded in 1993, is a privately held company headquartered in Englewood, New Jersey. We specialize in battery management products designed to improve and extend the life of any/all type lead-acid based batteries through the use of our proprietary design techniques and U.S. patented desulphation circuitry.”

Here is the link to the BatteryMINDer’s web site.

They have 2 devices (mod #1500 and #1510) that are appealing due to size, price and function (high frequency pulse desulfation (not high voltage) and temperature monitoring).

My question is this. Their temperature monitoring is ambient temp, measure at the site of the device. Is this the right place to be monitoring the temp or should it be at the battery, like on the case or in the enclosure?

Curious which is the “right” way and what difference it makes.

Harvey
SleepyC Moon


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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The right way is at the batteries. For example for my RV, I have a Magnum charger/inverter, which has an actual sensor probe which attaches to a battery terminal, and has a thermistor in that probe.

To use a pulse technology, I use the Pluse Tech power plus conditioners, which run off the battery voltage, and in conjunction with the charger. That is they are not a charger, just a pulse desolator.

I also have several of the battery minders and have been using them successfully for years. I don't know the exact circuit of either of these. However, the Battery minder does have a 1.5 amp charger--which should only maintain at float level. I'll have to throw one on a discharged battery and see what the voltage is, if it goes into a bulk or absorption stage.

I only worry about the temperature, when I am charging the batteries in bulk or absorption phase. Not a think I can do if the ambient temp is zero degrees, or 110 degrees! It is the temperature in the battery which is important--and for that you must modify the voltage and charing current.

I have ordered some cheap monitors which give voltage, amperage, watts and total watts. They would work well to monitor battery charging, as well as discharging!
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Rain



Joined: 09 Oct 2015
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

C-Glory came with a Guest charging system. After some research, I added a BlueSea Automatic Charging Relay.

https://www.bluesea.com/products/7610/SI-ACR_Automatic_Charging_Relay_-_12_24V_DC_120A

So far, so good.

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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rain,
The advantage of the ACR or VSR is that it combines the two batteries when you start your engine, and the voltage of the start battery comes up to 13.7 volts or above. The disadvantage is that it combines your batteries when the Guest charger kicks in, so that the batteries are treated as one bank as far as the charger is concerned. This is sort of OK if the batteries are same brand, same age and same type. If not, there there can be minor issues. There is a way to defeat this relay when you use the battery charger.

Some of us have had problems with the guest chargers and has upgraded thru the years. In fact every one I have had has failed. They are fine for slow charge of the batteries between runs. But you do need to check the voltage output independently every so often.
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hardee



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jay said:

"C-Glory came with a Guest charging system."

I'm curious which Guest charger you have. I have been looking at possibly replacing mine, although it has worked all along, I'm just thinking prophylacticly. My searches have always wound up in the Marinco family and I'm just looking for options.

Bob, do you remember which Guest chargers you had trouble with? You mention they are OK for slow charging, so I'm guessing they were higher amp than my little one, (Guest 2610W, 10 amp).

I rarely use my on-board charger when cruising, but I do watch my volt meter steadily. Rare to get below 12.4 even after a long night on the CPAP and with the Garmin anchor monitor/GPS on. No fridge or AC to run at night but a fair amount of electronics that run when the boat is moving.

Harvey
SleepyCMoon

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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harvey,
That is doing pretty good with overnight and the CPAP..some use less than others. I was corresponding with a fellow who was having a lot of trouble with his, and even a group 31 battery. There is a fair amount of variation by units, heater, humidifier, if an inverter is necessary etc.

I have had several of the Guest 10 (5/5) 2611A units and the Guest 20 (15/5/10),
2621 each of which have gone bad. Often it was just one leg. I went to a higher output Mastervolt recently.

Yes, I do "stress" these chargers more--in that do have higher electrical demands in some of the boats.


On the other hand, I have two of the 2606A portable potted 6 amp chargers, which I often use and never had an issue for years.

I have had Charles, Pro Charge, Pro Mariner, Xantrex, go bad, and even had the circuit board on a full time Magnum and a Trace inverter chargers go bad. (This represents a lot of years and a lot of battery charging!)
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hardee



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Bob, I think my charger is closely related to the ones you were using. (Guest 10 (5/5) 2611A)
It is fine now, but I am looking....

As to the CPAP, It is not all that easy. I use a very old Respironics REM Star Pro, without a heater or humidifier unit, and it runs directly off the 12VDC cig plug. That way there is no inverter loss, or heater/humidifier. I like not using the inverter, but I do miss the humidity. The trip last summer for 7 weeks, eve though I was on the boat and on the water had my sinuses drying out and I wound up using saline nasal spray morning and evening. That worked out quite well.

There are other systems, obviously. My favorite home machine is my ResMed S-9, with the humidifier side system. Another one I like and use for travel is a Transcend. It is small, light, and with a battery pack, included still fits into a saddlebag on my motor cycle. I can charge that battery off the bike system, so it will work for bike cruising.

As to charging my boat batteries while towing, I think I am looking at a very simply system, wired from the boat battery switch running the wire along the stbd side under the gunnel and running the line out through the hawse pipe opening when I want to plug it in. When not, the cord will be coiled up, velcroed under the fore-deck. Thinking it will be a seperate 2 conductor line, not through the trailer light connector plug.

Harvey
SleepyCMoon

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Rain



Joined: 09 Oct 2015
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harvey, the manual is on the boat. I'll check model number for you next time I am there, probably tomorrow since today is movie day and we are going to Anacortes to see "Revenant". I know it is a Guest 20 amp, 5/5/10. It probably came with the boat, which means it is 8 years old. Like everything else on the boat, it has seen little use; the Suzuki 115 only had 26 hours on it when I bought it. Of course that can be an issue worse than wear!
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Aurelia



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are a couple more related threads on Guest charger experiences.

http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t=18969

http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t=19788

Greg

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Gulfcoastjohn



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:40 pm    Post subject: BATERY CHARGERS Reply with quote

UPDATE:
I am on record here advocating the unique features of the Blue Sea Systems P12 line of advanced battery chargers with the ability to place individual batteries (most often the House not the 2 Engine) batteries in Pre-Float mode along with temp and equalization monitoring. And the ONLY 5 year warranty in the marine charging world.

After our Indian Summer excursion yesterday, I noticed that the Blue Sea P12 40-Amp charger was blank…no LED’s on, no status panels on pushing the buttons. It has 120v at the inputs, and I replaced a good-looking 10A fuse by the 10v input box, and called Tech Support without looking at the manual for ‘what’s next.’

After 30 seconds on hold got a live US guy right there in Bellingham, WA. He didn’t ask for my registration or warranty name and info. He said, ‘Well, you’ve done everything right. Sorry, it happens. Now it’s a warranty issue.’ (I felt like, ‘Jim, he’s Dead’ for you Star Trek Fans).

I EXPECTED him to say, “ship this heavy, $700 bullet-proof bugger to us insured with a copy of your dated sales receipt. Our engineers will take a look at it to see if it was lightning etc that’s not covered, or some other excuse, and/or replace any failed parts with parts salvaged from another failed unit, then we’ll ship it back in a couple of months or so.”

INSTEAD, he said, “We’ll send you a brand new unit TODAY, along with a shipping label to return the failed unit to us for free. Call me if you don’t have it in 4 business days. What’s your name and address? ”

NOW THAT’S IDEAL BOATING CUSTOMER SERVICE!!

A $3000 Garmin radar or MFD or a $1500 Coleman RV rooftop AC or a $3000 laptop or anything else you can name has a 1 year warranty on the water, with multiple exclusions, including damage from….water.
My ONLY competing Great Marine Customer Service story is when Smart-Plug (you should all have one) sent a free replacement 50-ft, $300 shorepower cord based on pics of the failed blue LED at the boatside connection, and a free return label.

GREAT CUSTOMER SERVICE IN THE BOATING WORLD IS RARE AND SHOULD BE RECOGNIZED!
IF YOU HAVE A BETTER STORY THAN THESE 2, TELL US HERE!

John
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dgeorges



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CONCUR ABOUT BLUESEA!

Every Bluesea product I have ever installed or used works perfectly. Amazing outfit.

Recently installed a new Batterylink ACR/Charger on my new CD22. Unbelievable piece of equipment.

Here's the info that I gotta share cuz the stuff just works: https://www.bluesea.com/products/7605/10A_BatteryLink_Charger_%5BNorth_America%5D

I don't work for these folks and am not sponsored by them.....but I wish I was.

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Foggy



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kudos for Blue Sea Systems!

Aye.

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