Time for another battery charger discussion?

JamesTXSD

Well, it's been a while since we've discussed onboard battery chargers. I pulled all our batteries out, checked water levels, and connections. The battery switch has been problematic, but some WD-40 and exercise seems to have taken care of that. The Guest charger that the factory installed has been replaced once and this replacement seems to not be giving a charge to the start battery.

So, the options are: replace the Guest with the same thing and not have to mess around with wiring, OR go with something different and mess with wiring. It wouldn't hurt my feelings to have some sort of a meter/read-out, as well.

So, any suggestions? Thanks in advance!

Best wishes,
Jim B.

thataway · Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 11:03 pm Post subject:

I just switched to a MasterVolt 20 amp charger. The reviews on MasterVolt are excellent, and so far it far out preforms the Guest (I have had 4 of the Guest chargers fail--no more for me!)

One of my friends who is building a 60 foot Power cat, has put in two 24/4000 (230 volts) inverters, with a massive battery bank, instead of generators. Steve Dashew used Mastervolt systems on Windhorse (84 foot power boat).

journey on · Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:06 am Post subject:

Jim, I assume that when you say the battery switch, you mean the main one, that feeds DC power to the boat. There is a battery charger switch on the AC panel. Sometimes (only on Journey On,) that gets knocked off. But if it's on those batteries had better be getting charged.

So unless the charger has been rewired, that thing operates independently of the DC battery switch. It has a direct connection to each battery bank through a fuse. So to check if anything is being supplied to the battery, one would check the voltage at the battery with the AC power off and then on. Hopefully, with the charger powered, you'll notice an increase in voltage, to ~13 VDC. If not disconnect the charger from the battery, checking voltage back, through the fuses to the output of the charger. So it's either the fuses, the wiring or the charger. I await with bated breath for the answer.

The Guest that came with Journey On was about 5 amps (?) which I felt was too small to do the job. I replace it with a (Xantrex) 40 amp that I had, which was overkill. But then, the batteries are charged. 20 amps is just right.

Boris

Discovery · Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:34 am Post subject:

http://www.basspro.com/ProMariner-Advanced-Pro-Tournament-100-10Amp-2Bank-Charger/product/39734/

I put one in my 2002 Tracker when new. Charging three group 27 batteries in two banks. I sold the boat this summer with the original charger and original batteries. All still going strong. I kept it plugged in 27/7 if not on the water. How many $ did I save in 10 years on batteries?

I bought a Pro Tournament 150 for the new to me 2006 22' Angler I got this fall.

Grumpy · Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:17 am Post subject:

Jim,

After a series of "issues" with a Pro-sine 2000 last year which may well have cost me two sets of batteries and crappy support form Xantrex I did like Dr Bob and replaced the whole damned thing with a Master Volt 40 A system which is actually built like it was meant to be used on a boat.

To your second question I also added a total current monitoring system which monitors the actual charge/discharge current and voltage level of the house bank at all times. It also computes % capacity remaining.

Since I am still on my first cup of coffee, my brain is not functioning well enough to remember the manufacturer of the current monitor but if it is of interst I will look it up later and even get you some pictures if you need.
Installation was very easy and well explained.

M

Captains Cat · Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:36 am Post subject:

27/7? Brent, where did the extra 3 hours in your day come from. I need that! Mr. Green

Charlie

Grumpy · Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:47 am Post subject:

Coffe works fast !!

Monitor is Magnum. West Marine #9369406. Worth every penny of it's $159.99 Smile

.

Changed to Smart Plug connector at the boat side of shore power at the same time since the boat is plugged-in all the time at the dock and 4 slots down from me one caught fire last year. Get's your attention !!

M

Sunbeam · Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 11:59 am Post subject:

On the monitoring side of things: I've had battery monitors on other boats (various older Link models) and liked having the ability to really know what was going on with the batteries/charging.

For my 22 I decided to try a different brand/model, and bought a Victron BMV-600S (monitors a single bank; the 602S does two banks). I chose it because it got good reviews and because the wire(s) going from the shunt to the gauge is simply a Cat 5 style cable (clips like Ethernet on the ends) instead of a bunch of separate wires. It's also priced attractively (~$150).

I can't fully endorse it yet as I'm just halfway through installing it and haven't used it yet; but I can say that it's straightforward to install. The one bit I have left is to run the Cat 5 cable up into the cabin (already clicked it into the shunt - easy!) and to cut the hole for and install the gauge (optional round or square bezels come with it).

Sunbeam

JamesTXSD · Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:32 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the good suggestions, folks! Probably goes without saying that... I'm getting a charge out of this! Mr. Green

Thanks!

thataway · Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:57 pm Post subject:

I am using a Link monitoring system, works great. But Victron is probably better. On the RV we have nothing by Magnum--excellent product, no issues with it running 3 years 24/7, (both monitoring and control systems, along with the 2500 pure sine wave inverter/130 amp charger, but that is charging 4 golf carts, and also has temperature sensor....

BrentB · Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:56 pm Post subject:

journey on · Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:02 pm Post subject:

I thought of a couple of criteria which I use for selecting a battery charger AND generator.

As for the battery charger, no matter how big and we're not talking more than 40 amps, the full output of the charger is only used for the first 10 min, if that. The charging rate drops pretty quickly after the starting surge. I charge 2 ea golf cart batteries and one group 27, and the charging rate starts from 20 amps, down to 10 and finally settles in at 5 amps for the remainder of the charge. and those batteries are new. The moral is buying over 20 amps for a C-Dory isn't worthwhile.

Second is the size of the generator. We only use a generator after several days at anchor, and I have a Honda 1000i. Great generator, but it can only handle ~25 amps of 12 VDC charging. That works out to (25 amps x 13.5 VDC) about 340 watts, well below the 800 the unit's rating. So, that 1000i will handle a 20 amp charger, and one doesn't need the 2000i.

Also, the 1000i is an inverter generator. I used to have a larger non-inverter generator which wouldn't handle the Freedom charger I used, due to the power factor. So be careful that you get a battery charger and generator which work together. I think the new smaller, high frequency chargers need the inverter.

I just found out that COSTCO sells deep discharge batteries. Actually I found out about this after I had trouble trying to get the local dealer to honor the Exide warranty. Turns out COSTCO just exchanges the battery when you bring it in. So now I have 3 ea Costco batteries in Journey On: 2 golf and one 27. Cheaper and better guarantee.

A few random thoughts, Boris

Robert H. Wilkinson · Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:40 pm Post subject:

Boris - Cosco is great with returns, also if they lower the price of something you bought 2 or 3 months ago you can take in your bill and they will return you the difference in price - as long as they have the item in stock.

You are right a 20 amp charger will probably suffice for most C Dory's. The ideal initial amperage is calculated based on the size of the battery bank. The battery manufacturer will tell you the best bulk charge voltage for your batteries.(usually around 14.6) Your charger should be able to maintain that amperage until your batteries reach that voltage. If the amperage starts to ramp down before that voltage is reached then the charger is weak/overrated or it is operating in too hot an enviroment.

Also agree - the generator, charger and batteries all need to be compatable.

Regards, Rob

Discovery · Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:02 am Post subject:

I didn't get my coffee before, or proof read after. 24/7 on the charger. The batteries were Interstate group 27 wet cells. I just topped off the cells with distilled water each year. There were two periods of 5 months when the boat was off the grid in an RV park and only daily fishing trips kept the batteries charged.

Aurelia · Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:16 am Post subject:

Jim, so you have a Guest 5/5 charger right now and likely a couple of non-sealed batteries likely group 27 size. Is that about right? Have you been doing well enough with your current capacity and rate of recharge when plugged back in after some time running them down?

Would you like to add more battery power? Would you like to take this opportunity to move some weight around possibly changing the battery locations? Do you have a need for more outlets or are there other changes to your 12v leads that you would like to reroute? Are you tired of switching loads for starting/charging/anchoring and might like some automation built in? Would you like to monitor your power use like a fuel usage gauge or more like a simple volt meter to know general charge level?

The more you tell us, the better we can help you out with specific advice.

Greg