Coast Guard Documentation

[matt_unique]

[thataway]

If a part of the boat is in the water, there is an assumption that it provides bouyancy. In my boat, the waterline is several inches above the bottom of the wing deck, the part immersed comes about 1/3 of the length of the hulls from the stern foreward. The part of the Armstrong brackets are also immersed, and would provide floatation or bouyance at rest. (The bouyancy can be at rest only, and not when at speed, as is the case of the Tom Cat 255. ) There does not have to be a calculation of the amount of bouyancy. See the photograph below which shows the waterline, and that the bridge or wing deck is submerged:

The Coast guard documentation site has changed as of Jan 1 2008. You used to fill out an interactive form and play around with the numbers to get the max, considering hull type and depth (not draft--the depth is measured from the top of the gunnel. In some vessels the volume of the deck house may be added if it is greater than the volume of the hull.)

The new web site has an interactive PDF document, which you can print out--and it is the form you submit to the Coast Guard. The documentation site is at:
http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-m/vdoc/nvdc.htm

The interactive document is at:
http://www.uscg.mil/hq/msc/t3/cg5397/CG-5397%20Rev%206-04%20v1%200.pdf

You put in the numbers and type of hull form. With the new forum it does not seem to allow to use the "barge or box" type.

[matt_unique]

Thanks for the links.

Did you submit the form to the CG with the measurements or did you get 5 tons using the (pre Jan 2008) application? In either case I find it very interesting the Tomcat comes out to 5 net tons.

[thataway]

Thatway, the Tom Cat 255, is not documented. The dealer had submitted for numbers, and not obtained the master builder's certificate (as I had requested). When we finally got the certificate, it was in error, and I just kept the state numbers, since there was no advantage to me. I had a higher tonage of 6 net tons. This was using the older interactive forum, and a "box" or barge hull form. I have all of the paper work but did not submit it.

The 5 net tons is from the current PDF site.

The CD 25 (Frequent Sea) I did document, and it is 5 Net Tons.

[matt_unique]

[thataway]

Matt,
All that is necessary is that the vessel be more than 5 tons admeasured. I am using a Mac currently and it does not properly interact with the form--so I cannot say if the current forumula would differ from the 6 tons I got--but it makes no practical difference. The deck house--would be subject to some interputation--although it begins at the bottom of the wing deck, any "draft" would be from the top of the gunnel to the top of the cabin--more like 4.5 feet high, 9 feet long, and about 7.5 feet wide--then the foreward trunk cabin 1.5 feet high, 4 feet long and 6 feet wide. I doubt that this volume would exceed that of the hull--which is 27.5 feet long, 8.5 feet wide, and 3.8 feet deep)--some approximate numbers I came up with would be: 888 cubic feet of hull volume, (assuming the barge like hull. The deck house would only be approximately: 340 cubic feet--and thus not in excess of the volume of the hull). Remember that the hull is from the top of the gunnel, to the bottom of the deepest part of the hull--and much of this area, is well below the sink and table level in the interior of the cabin--all of that part counting as part of the hull, not the deck house.

[matt_unique]

Ah thanks...I read the definition of "overall depth" in the instructions document and it indeed is a measure from the top of the gunwale down. Based on the that the volume inside the cabin would not exceed that of the hull.

Thanks for the clarification!

[patrick and linda]

can't see where this has been mention in prior post but, many and i mean many people who have purchased documented vessels form private owners have not paid sales tax! doesn't seem to be any regulatory group that collects same, at time of sale.
several years ago i purchased a documented boat, held for sale by a local dealer, he forced the paying of sales tax ($10,000.+) and to this day i believe they were never forwarded to the state, but kept by the dealer.
pat

[thataway]

I cannot speak for Ohio, but suspect Ohio law requires the broker to collect sales tax on any vessel sold in the state--with perhaps some exceptions where the boat is taken directly out of state. For example I did purchased a documented vessel in Ohio and had it shipped directly to Florida--I had to sign papers that I would not use that vessel in Ohio. About 6 months after I had transfered documentation to my name, Florida dept. of Revenue contacted me--even though the boat had never been in Florida, wanting sales tax. Florida and California "mine" or have the Coast Guard foreward addresses of owners and hailing ports of documented vessels which are in their states.

For example, Frequent Sea was purchased in New Jersey, repaired in Florida, but not purchased for use in Florida, and taken to California. I received a letter from Calif. Franchise tax board requesting sales tax. The boat was documented with San Clemente as a hailing port--with my address in Florida as the point of contact. Florida has not contacted me yet about this--but I will have to pay only one sales tax.

There are some states where you may not have to pay sales tax on a documented vessel--but most states now have registration of documented vessels--and they get the tax at the time of "registration" (no state numbers, but stickers are required) Florida is very perticular on this issue.

This is a very complex subject--and I have a certain level of knowlege about Florida and Calif. Laws ref sales tax, registration and documented vessels. It would take many pages to explain all of the exceptions--and some communication I have had with the Attorney General of the Florida Fish and Wildlife commission. However, Florida is basically requiring that any vessel which operates on its waters needs to prove either exemption from sales tax or pay sales tax. If you have paid in another state, then you do not need to pay in Florida. If you purchased the boat, with no intent of bringing the boat into Florida and later bring the boat to Florida you may not have to pay sales tax, but having a Florida address, pretty much proves that you had intent of using that boat in Florida.

I am told that Lousiania does not require sales tax on documented vessels--not sure that is accurate. Check with your local tax office. The FWC is checking boats which arrive in Florida from Alabama for registration stickers and proof that the boat is properly registered and tax was paid. The first stop is a warning, but it is put into the data base. and a second stop may cause action to be taken. We have had boats stopped before reaching the first marina in Pensacola-right at the Alabama Border.

[C-Pelican]

My boat is documented, 22' Cruiser, and I love it that way.
No numbers, a one-time fee and then free renewals yearly.

It came that way when I bought it from Dr Bob a few years ago and I would not change it.

Gives it a unique look with no visible state numbers or stickers and I love "educating" many authorities on its legality.
I can't tell you how many water police try to write down my dinghy's numbers for my boats numbers.

I tried not paying the sales tax in California, my home port state, but they tracked me down and I had to pay it in the end...with interest.

[Doryman]

When John Schuler bought his Coastal Craft, I went with him on an overnight to Poet's Cove so that he could document going out of the country with the boat. Somehow this enabled him to avoid paying any state sales tax. Maybe he will see this and comment or correct.

Warren

[eNORMous]

Curious as to any particular locations (e.g. V-Berth, Head, etc) others have found appropriate for permanently marking their vessel's for USCG interior (46 CFR 67.120) compliancy.

What have others used to permanently mark the interior of their vessel to meet compliancy?

I was thinking of something to the effect of a etch-o-sketching, or small hand-held dremmel against the glass in either the head or the V-Berth.

Any ideas welcomed; and,

Thanks!
Norm

[Alyssa Jean]

Norm, I think all that matters is that the numbers are at least 4" in height and that they are on a permanent part of the boatss structure. Ie. not on the back of a head door or a part of the boat that can be removed.

[eNORMous]

Hi David,

Thanks for the reply. Actually, the 'interior' vessel documentation number received from the USCG NVDC must be 3" in height & permanently affixed to the interior of the vessel. I was looking to see where & how others have marked the interior.

OFFICIAL NUMBERS:
The official number shown on the Certificate of Documentation, preceded by the abbreviation "NO" must be marked in block-type Arabic numerals of at least 3 inches in height on some clearly visible interior structural part of the hull. The number must be permanently affixed so that alteration, removal or replacement would be obvious and cause some scarring or damage to the surrounding hull area.

NAME AND HAILING PORT: For Recreational vessels the name and hailing port must marked together on some clearly visible exterior part of the hull. For Commercial vessels the name must be marked pm each bow and the vessel name and hailing port must also be marked on the stern. The markings may be made by the use of any means and materials that result in durable markings. All must be at least 4 inches in height, made in clearly legible letters o the Latin alphabet or Arabic or Roman numerals. A vessel’s Hailing Port marking must include BOTH a place (city) and the state, territory or possession where the place (city) is located. Only the state, territory or possession maybe abbreviated unless the city is a commonly known abbreviation, such as N.Y., N.Y.

Thanks man!
Norm

[mcc272]

Norm --

As you know, David is right about the numbers needing to be permanently mounted so that their removal would leave damage. I come from Nordic Tugs which are frequently documented and I have seen two methods used. One, which I have used, is to get a sign carver to rout out a number board with the official number. The number board is than attached to a piece of the hull or permanent structure with a full tube of 3M5200. A second approach is to put the numbers in place with 3 inch high stick on numbers. Then, epoxy a light piece of fiberglas cloth over them. A single piece of cloth will be translucent and the numbers will show clearly. As to location, I don't know the CD25 all that well but you do have areas under the cockpit floor that might work like the side of a compartment under the deck. Another alternative would be on the inside of the hull in the cabinet that holds the sink and stove. Some people also go so far as to permanently install, without regard to size requirements, a second permanent documentation number in a location that would be very hard to find like way up underneath a side deck where you could not see it without standing on your head. The purpose of this would be to prove the identity of the boat if it was stolen and the HIN number on the transom was modified.

Are you just planning ahead or did your long awaited documentation come through? If it came through, congratulations.