Horsepower size

[Chica]

I have a 22' angler with a 90HP Honda but am considering upgrading to a 115HP Honda or Yamaha. I thought I had heard or read that C-Dory increased the maxium HP specification. True? I see that some C-Dories are running 115's. C-Dory has not answered my e-mail yet. Thank you, Chica

[Sea Wolf]

Chica-

Yes, C-Dory did up the recommended maximum horsepower to 115 a year or two ago.

I asked them the same question a few years earlier when they went from 90 to 100, and they said it would be OK, and they would send me a new decal for the boat saying the max was 100 (this is the one on the dash at the helm). Also, this was before the ownership change.

It will be up to C-Dory as to whether they will recommend 115 for your older boat. I don't know if any structural changes have been made in the transom to handle the 115.

I asked Gunther's Outboards here in California to put a 115 Yamaha on my CD-22 when I bought a new motor in "05, but they refused, citing liability issues, regardless of what sticker I could get, etc.

Let us know what C-Dory says............

Good Luck!

Joe.

[Pat Anderson]

There is the question of what you CAN do, and then the question of WHY would you want to do it? The 115 motor may make the boat go faster than the 90, but the 90 will make a CD22, new or old, go as fast as it is comfortable to go in a CD22. Just my $0.02 (we had a CD22 for two years before buying the CD25).

[thataway]

I would agree with Pat. Based on our experience on the 22 C Dory, the 90 hp, even with the boat loaded, would bring the boat speed up to 30 or so knots. As the flat bottom boats go faster, they tend to have a bit less control than some other hull forums.

Although the 115 HP Honda engine is significantly larger displacement, it is also about 140 lbs heavier than the 90 hp EFI Honda. Consider the consiquence of increased weight on the transom of a 22 C Dory. The Yahama is almost 100 lbs less than the Honda, so is closer to the weight of the 90 Honda.

The other question is will the fuel economy suffer with the larger engine? I don't know if it will or not, but this is one of the features of the C Dory and 4 stroke engines. The C Dory is not a high speed boat; there are other fishing boats which do better at high speeds.

[Chica]

I usually run at 4800-5000 rpm's and get a speed of 18-22 mph depending on the sea. In order to get 30mph I have to run at 5800-6000 rpms. I run about an hour to get to my usual fishing grounds off the west side of Vancouver Island and did not feel it was in the best interest of my motor to have to run at WOT or near to it for that period of time. Is my reasoning incorrect, or can I safely run at that speed for that long without damage to the engine? Chica

[Pat Anderson]

I think you are correct that you don't want to push your outboard to WOT all the time. Sounds like you really want or need some other kind of boat, not a new engine, if you want to run at 30 out to your usual fishing grounds. The CD22 is the wrong boat to "get there fast." The handling of a CD22 at 30 can probably best be described as "skitterish" or "squirrely." Is your experience different at that speed? Maybe you need a Grady White with a couple of 225s...I am not being facetious. It just all depends on what you want out of a boat.

[Chica]

Ola Pat, I have never run my boat at 30mph long enough to get a "skitterish" feeling, however your remarks are well taken. I once asked Jack O'Conner what he thought about getting my 8mm Mauser re-chambered for a Gibbs modification and he said, "If you want more gun, then you should buy more gun." That's what I did. Thought I would run the 115 HP thing by Red Fox and Coop's Cruiser as I know they run 115's. Thanks all. Chica

[Cutty Sark]

Well, I run a 115 suzuki and love it. The suzuki 115 is the same weight as the 90 I believe. I can get up to 35-36 depending on wind, current etc... I find the boat handles good at around 30, it does get a little squirelly above that but you just have to be gentle with the wheel. I run wot almost every trip if allowable at least for a minute or two. I think the Cdory is a great fishing platform personally, nothing like having heat, being able to make a hot lunch and stay out of the liquid sunshine when it's coming down. I would love to be able to go 40 though, the trade off you have to make for economical running. I'm not sure if the older boats are rated for a 115 but I'd bet the boat can handle it.

Sark

[westward]

Chica: before repowering, you may want to try switching to a higher pitch prop. I have almost identical RPM/speed numbers as you with my twin 40 setup, but I directed Les to power prop me to handle the heavy loads we carry. I intend to buy a set of "upshift" props this year as spares and for the (infrequent) times we cruise long distances lightly loaded. Your 90 has to have several years of life left on it for you to take advantage of. Good luck! Mike.

[Larry H]

I got to drive Greg's Red Fox this past summer.

His flat bottom Classic 22 is loaded very heavy, and the 115 pushes the boat with authority!

The boat is so heavy that cutting wakes is no problem. The boat carves tight turns at high speed without any skipping or blowing out.

My opinion:
If you operate your 22 heavy (5,000lbs or more), a 115 is a good choice.

If you operate light with just your lunch and jacket, then 115 hp my be too much.





Notice how far down the stern of the Red Fox is.

[Wandering Sagebrush]

I haven't seen Jack's name in print for years, it was good to see that there are folks that still remember him. As far as the bigger gun, I am surprised that Jack didn't say just get a .270 and be done with it.

Steve

[thataway]

I would agree that running near WOT is not wise. Running at 85% of WOT is acceptable. If we consider WOT 6,000 RPM, then 5,100 RPM is a reasonable full time running speed. Although you don't want to "over prop" an engine, you might try running with 2" more prop pitch or a more agressive prop. To me 4800 to 5000 RPM with a 90 hp and only getting 18 to 22 mph (15.6 to 19 knots) seems a bit slow for the boat.

What does you boat weigh? Do you have and use trim tabs? What prop, pitch, cup etc are you running?

We could run the 22 at 30 mph at WOT at Lake Powell, loaded for 10 days cruising, with two adults and 3 dogs. Top speed was about 30 knots at sea level, with 2" more pitch prop.

The lighter Suzuki engine might be a good choice, but there are several potential negitives--it is a smaller displacement engine than the Honda 115, and the same engine block as the Suzuki 90 hp. Also the change in rigging from Honda to Suzuki would be more costly. So if you want to go up in hp consider a larger displacement engine. Just because another boater runs a 115 hp, does not mean that he runs that boat at 30 mph (26 knots).

I agree that you need to run your boat at 30 mph or more, for enough time to see how it handles. (My experience is it is OK at 26 knots, but at 30 knots gets skitterish Also as you up the speed, the ride becomes less comfortable).

[Chica]

Wandering Sagebrush, I did not know Jack, but read his column in either Field and Stream or Sports Afield, and he answered my inquiry almost immediately in a type written letter. He made no suggestion as to caliber, but I ended up with a 270 Weatherby Magnum a few years later.
Thataway, I run a standard issue Honda prop-13.5x15x3 aluminum prop. I have trim tabs and love them. I think my boat is heavy as I usually have three adult males, a large igloo cooler with ice, two electric downriggers with 2- 10# weights and 2-12# weights. halibut gear, poles, weights, gaff, and spear. Usually 30 gallons of fuel, a jump battery, survival gear, 2 VHF radios and a GPS/fishfinder, Serius radio, tools, and net. Your suggestion for prop size would be??
If I get a larger motor, I will share my experiences after the salmon season. It will most likely have to be a Yamaha as we have no Suzuki dealer in state. Chica

[starcrafttom]

you may want to look in to a new honda 90. Why would you replace a 90 with a 90 you might ask. Well because the new fuel injected honda 90 is lighter then the old one and is producing about 110 hp according to every thing I have read. Call the florida dealer he has a 90 on his older 25. He claims 30 mph light in it.

[Brooks Cooper]

After running my 115 Yamaha on Coop's Cruiser for while now. I feel I made a great move up-powering. You don't have to run WOT to produce a decent time saving cruising speed. I turn about 4600 rpm to produce around 26 mph, that's loaded with three adults 50 of fuel and all the other supplies. Fuel economy appears to me to be greater than when I had the 90 honda. Plus if I add people or other crap to the boat I have plenty of power to do what I need. I run a 4 blade solas 15 pitch that gives me the best overall performance. WOT is 5800 top speed around 35 mph