Advice on anchor line diameter

[thataway]

Stretch is measured at a specific load--often a % of safe working load.

Nylon 3 strand has 16% stretch at 30% SWL, Double braid nylon has 6.5% stretch at 30% SWL--way too much stretch to be used in the running rigging in sailboats. Dacron Braid has 2.4% stretch and there are muiltiple low stretch braids (which are used in sailboats for running rigging, which has 1% or less stretch).

For a 22, I would not go over 1/2" rode. 1/2" is fine for pulling in. We used 5/8" in 46 to 60 footers. We also used 3/8" double braid for anchor rode on our stern anchor and kedge anchor for over 30 years--and although it is slightly harder on the hands--it works fine--even on 30 to 45 foot boats. The slightly lower stretch can be compensated for by the use of a snubber. A 7/16" double braid nylon might be a good compromise for size and ease of handling. 5/8" can be too bulky and stiff to use comfortably.

[CW]

drjohn & marvin, thanks for the comments. I would definitely be interested in a free fall or quick drop type of windlass... brand name and model suggestions? One caveat with the windlass is it is electric. It is not uncommon for me to run a mere mile or two or less to where I fish from where my covered slip is in the marina. I then anchor and sometimes fish four to six hours with the stereo playing, possibly lights on in pre dawn. maybe a pump or two from the bilge. This draws down the batteries without adequate run time to recharge them. Maybe not on one trip, but after three such trips, cranking the big block V-8 used to be iffy. I remedied this by putting a solar panel charger on the roof I got from Cabelas (with overcharge protector) [at about $125]. An electric windlass (on a future C-Dory for me) would compound the draw whereas a buoy anchor puller is run from the boat's momentum. Why is it I haven't seen the C-Brats discussing solar chargers much? Maybe I'm still too new to know what's been discussed.

Also, wonderful though the Wallas stoves seem to be, again, that fan that runs is another electric draw.... whereas my $22 propane stove, heats fine without electricity. How many pulls with your windlass in 60 ft. of water with 250 ft. of line can your pair of batteries handle and still crank the outboards reliably? If the batteries are dead, can you wrap a pull cord around the top of a Honda or Suzuki or Yamaha 50 or 90 and crank it by hand like I could my old Merc 65 or current Yamaha 9.9 4 strk kicker? These are crucial considerations I have to make as well as general quick and easy anchoring access. Spoiled by a walk through windshield, C.W.

[drjohn71a]

Solar panels have been used mainly by long term cruisers such as Brent and Dixie on Discovery. Brent has a large rooftop array of collectors. Most of the higer powered outboards put out 40 plus amps charging, so they can recharge for occasional anchor windlass use.

You could get a small Yamaha or Honda generator, too... Of course manual recovery of the anchor will keep you in great shape!

You do have a unique situation there.

John

[marvin4239]

CW I have a Lewmar 700 windlass and I'm very happy with albiet this is the first windlass I have every had so I don't have much to compare it to. As far as the batteries I have one starting battery in the starboard lazarette and two group 24 house batteries which are mounted in the port lazarette. I usually anchor in fairly shallow water not putting out any more than maybe 75 feet of rode. My windlass is not a free fall (Lewmar makes a freefall model) so it uses power going and coming. I've raised and lowered it maybe 1/2 dozen times in less than and hour jockeying around to get on a fishing spot and not noticed any excessive battery drain. When my boat is in the boat house it's plugged into shore power which keeps the batteries charged through the factory installed on board charger (Guest). My Suzuki 90 seems to charge the batteries rather quickly. Usually when I start I have my selector switch on the start battery and after running a while I switch to house batteries. For me solar chargers (boat mounted) aren't cost effective and I have a covered boat house that wouldn't allow charging.

[marvin4239]

I forgot to mention my Mercury 50 has provisions for starting with a rope which I have done many times. It starts very easy. It's on my Carolina Skiff and I run the batteries down rather frequently with the trolling motor. The Honda 50 I had also had provisions to rope start it but I never had to. I suspect it wouldn't have been as easy as the Mercury as it was 3 cylinder carburated and the Mercury is 4 cylinder EFI. The Suzuki 90 I now have doesn't have provisions for rope starting that I'm aware of.

[drjohn71a]

CW - The manner in which one uses the anchor windlass has a great effect upon the power draw. Most windlass instructions say to move the boat toward the anchor, taking pressure off the windlass while it is spooling up the line. Most advise NOT to use the windlass alone to drag the boat against the wind/current until the anchor is freed. It uses much less power when used properly.

John

[tsturm]

[journey on]

I've used 2 different electric windlasses: a "free-fall" on a sailboat and the Lewmar on Journey On. The Lewmar is power in and power out, and wins hands down. The only reason I go forward is to tie the anchor line off, after it's set, and untie it to raise it. Power out helps in setting the anchor and making sure you know how much line is out. Pull that anchor by hand a couple of times and the windlass will seem a great bargain.

As for electricity used, use the windlass as John suggested above, and it doesn't use much power. In fact, if you have the motor running ( I assume that's a given,) the motor will carry the whole load, and not use any battery power. Yes the Wallis fan is run by electricity, but it only uses 65 MILLIamps. The batteries don't notice it over a days use.

I used 1/2 in. line on a 36' sailboat, and it held in 32 knt winds. 5/8" is just too big for a 22' boat. I agree with Bob, one can even go to 3/8" line. And I have anchored in the Columbia River

Boris

[Larry H]

When I was rigging the 'Nancy H' I purchased a 600ft spool of 7/16ths three strand nylon line.

I used one half for the bow anchor (16.5 Bruce with 30 ft of 1/4 chain) and one half for the stern anchor (13lb Danforth with 30 ft of chain).

I pulled the anchors by hand and the 7/16ths line is a good compromise. I felt that the 3/8ths was too small to grip and 1/2 was too big for the storage space. The bow anchorline was stored on the foredeck in a locker that I made.

My anchor gear proved adequate for the Pacific Northwest from Puget Sound to SE Alaska.

[Salmon Slayer]

Jim:

I dont have a windlass either and have found that 300 feet of 1/2 inch 3 strand nylon with 30 feet of chain works well for me. I am resisting an electric windlass for simplcity sake but would love to find a reliable manual windlass of the right size.

One thing to consider is the need to go up on the foredeck to manually haul your anchor and what that involves. I dont have a foredeck hatch (yet) but even if you do, you will have to get up on the foredeck to get leverage to pull that much chain and rode. If its rainy or icey that might change your mind towards an electric windlass real quick.

As a side note, a couple years ago my wife and I conducted a MOB drill on a warm day in shallow calm water to see if I could get back aboard in case I went overboard...IT WAS VERY VERY DIFFICULT IN MY FLOAT COAT, RED RUBBER BOOTS, JEANS, ETC. that I typically would be wearing. I was so cold and stiff that it was a real eye opener. If the water had been a little rough or it was fall or winter I dont know if she and I would have made a successful recovery which would have ruined the day for sure. I guess I am agreeing with most others that 5/8ths and 30 feet of chain is probably overkill and too much weight and that windlass' are not only back savers but nice safety devices in this part of the world.

Andy

[surfbird]

Thanks to everyone for their input.
I went ahead and bought 600 feet of 1/2" 3-strand and a 16.5 lb Bruce Lee (Chinese version) anchor.
I may end up buying a windlass, but I'll pull the hook by hand for awhile.
After a frustrating hour in front of the computer figuring out how to make a chain to rope splice, I am one step closer to getting the Turnstone on the water this wkend.
We'll see if the weather cooperates...
Jim

[Jazzmanic]

Will you be adding chain? It makes a big difference. We have 30' on ours. Good luck in getting your boat out on the water!

Peter
C-Dancer

[Sea Wolf]

Surfbird-

Good that you bought 1/2" three strand nylon, because it's what most windlasses use that are sized for the C-Dory.

It will be best if you buy 1/4" G-4 High Test Chain for the same reason.

One of the primary reasons some of us add windlasses, besides for the obvious ease and convenience, is for the safety factor of being able to operate the anchor system without having to go onto the foredeck in bad weather, big winds, swells, river currrents, lightening, and especially when operating alone. Also, if you're going to use the motor to position the boat caefully, or take up the slack when hoisting, you have to be at the helm, and cannot be on the foredeck at the same time.

To this end, I don't like windlass systems that require the operator to go to forward to release some chainstop, snubber line, or other lock/catch mechanism.

A good, appropriately sized (or oversized) windlass with a strong pivoting bow roller will work to lower, raise, and store the anchor and rode without extra tie-off devices.

I will agree that one ordinarily doesn't want to leave the rode tension on the windlass, and it's best, especially in heavy weather and overnight situations to tie the rode off with a snubber line to take the tension off the windlass. However, for daytime use when moving about here and there, such as when fishing, I want the system "push-button simple" from the helm, period!

To this end, I'd recommend a very strong, robust windlass that is even oversized for the boat.

I have a Quick Aires 500 windlass on my 22 which is brutally strong for a boat the size of a 22. When I experienced some occasional slip and difficulties passing the splice, I did two things:

1. First I added 100 feet of 1/4" G-4 chain at the front to replace the shorter 15 ft section, and thus enable me to anchor most of the time without even getting to the splice, (all chain works best for me in reservoirs and river anchoring situations anyway), and

2. I also re-invented the wheel by developing a different type of splice where the change in diameter at the splice-back is not so abrupt. (See HERE)

These changes worked so well for me here on Lake Shasta that when I added a windlass to my 26 1/2 ' Sea Ray, I installed a Lewmar Horizon Express Windlass (similar to the Horizon 1500 with a slightly higher gear ratio), 30 feet of 5/16" chain, and 200 feet of 5/8" 3-strand nylon. With the enormous pull available in the windlass and a huge anchor locker, I selected the 5/8" line because it fit the windlass gypsy better than smaller diameter lines, and did not present a storage problem. Otherwise, 1/2" would have been fine, and would have provided a more elastic/shock absorbing rode. I may still go over to 100 feet of chain up front, depending on experiences with the present rig.

One thing that must always be mentioned when discussing anchoring and equipment is that the specific types of anchors, rodes, and windlasses that will be best for any boat owner's use will be different depending on their area of use and anchoring/cruising style. What works best on the Columbia River may well be quite different from that one would be best in the sunken, underwater, and glascially carved rocky canyons of SouthEast Alaska. YMMV

HTH- Just another $0.02 of morning advice and jabberwocky for the offering!

Joe.

[thataway]

I don't know about the Bruce type of anchor--but the Delta Quick set will self launch from a solid roller, does not need a pivoting roller.

Agree with the longer length of chain--I like to have chain on the gypsy when there is any load. (As noted, the boat should be taken up until it is right over the anchor, the load taken up and then the boat's engine used to break out the anchor--the windlas brings up the chain and anchor.) I found that 150 to 200 feet of chain covered almost all anchoring situations in most of the world's waters--backed with 400 to 600 feet of rode. In Florida we find that 50 feet of chain is plenty--since we rarely anchor in more than 30 feet of depth.

[CW]

One more wrinkle that I forgot to mention (and it's a doozy) in fishing in hoglines on the Columbia. Boats fish abreast, all lined up, perpendicular to the shore, sometimes so close that bumpers are deployed to minimize damage. We back-bounce our lures behind us, fishing 3-5 ft. off of the bottom using a sliding weight dropper line. This is good etiquette because if someone anchored too low, their anchorline represents a lost fish if the fish wraps around it. With so many lines in the water and the increased risk of having a hooked Chinook wrap one's line around someone else's fishing line, the procedure is to release from your anchor line and drift back with the fish, in the current. Once safely away from your own hogline, you fire up your kicker or main motor and chug inshore or out to the main channel in order to avoid tangling fish and boat into the next hogline of boats below you and their quickly approaching anchor line, strung out in front of them some 200 ft.

And yes, it is a trick to guess where to drop your anchor, in the dark, between other anchorlines and trying to accurately judge the long distance and exactly shoot the gap between hoglined boats below you that may be a mere 15-20 ft. apart!


Release from the anchor? Yes, the rope is bagged or tied in a bundle to the buoy with a dangling stringer that is hooked over a cleat for quick release. I run mine through the "can" a tube that holds the anchor when underway and then along the portside gunwhale to a metal pin that pokes through a small loop back by the fishdeck in the stern, so I can set the hook, play fish and by pulling a short release rope, release from the anchor. The floating buoy not only holds your rope, it holds your spot in the hogline, reserving it until you get back from fighting your fish (or running in shore to pick up passengers etc.).

As convenient as windlasses sound.... can you easily get all of your rope up through them to leave with a buoy? Of course you'd have to do that after anchoring and rig up a release before fishing, to be ready. C.W.