Again With the Hydraulic Steering Upgrade

MOOSE

After a couple of long runs this summer, I have become interested in installing Teleflex BayStar hydraulic steering on the MOOSE. I have re-read the posts on this type of upgrade and have some questions. First off, we have twin Honda 40s and do not plan to add an autopilot. Will it be necessary to pull an engine off in order to install the hydraulic cylinder and ram? And will the existing tie-rod between the two engines suffice for the new installation? Is there anything else I should be aware of before I plow in to yet another project, or is it really pretty straightforward?
Al

Captains Cat · Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 6:46 am Post subject:

Al, we've got twin 45s with Seastar Steering. Not sure how the hydraulic fittings vary between the Seastar and Baystar. I'll take some pictures this weekend and post them on Monday of next week. I don't think you'll have to remove an engine to install it but not sure about the existing tie rod situation. There's some pretty good instructions/diagrams on the teleflex website. Don't have the URL handy right now but a google search on hydraulic marine steering should bring it pretty near the top. I'm about to put an autopilot on ours, as soon as I get enough time where we keep Captain's Choice. Good luck, keep us posted!

Charlile

Captains Cat · Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 6:50 am Post subject:

Al, just went to the website here

http://www.seastarsteering.com/BAYSTAR/baystar.htm

There are two different cylinders shown but each says they don't support twin engine installations. Maybe someone else has installed it on twins. The SEASTAR one does, you can see that by moving up in the website.

Charlie

MOOSE · Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 8:10 am Post subject:

Thanks. I spoke with Jeff at the CD factory and he said that, despite what Teleflex says, they use the less expensive BayStar system on twin installations all the time. He also said that is what the indefatigable Les Lampman uses as well. I just need a few more particulars and I'm on my way.
Al

Chivita · Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 10:11 pm Post subject:

Al,

Chivita has twin forties with both the Baystar hydraulic system and a Sportpilot + autopilot. The hydraulic steering works quite well compared to some of the old cable systems we have had on other boats and I would recommend hydraulics to anyone, but I'm not a big fan of the Baystar. If I had known then what I know now I would have gone with a SeaStar system for two serious reasons. #1-The Baystar hydraulic unit extends your steering wheel into your lap by approximately 4 or more inches where as the SeaStar unit does not. #2-The Baystar "ram" that came with our system (Oct 2002) connects to the starboard motor and is not as well designed nor as strong as the SeaStar system. I have heard that the newer Baystar "ram"s are an improvement from the one that C-Dory marine installed in Chivita, but the Baystar hydraulic unit (behind steering wheel) is still the same.

If your have twin Yamaha forties, you must cut off a portion of the front of the motor mounts to install either the BayStar or SeaStar. The instructions will explain where and it is a bit painful to do that to a beautiful motor, but once you do it works well.

Yell if you need photos!

Chivita Dave

MOOSE · Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 9:26 am Post subject:

Thanks for your thoughts, Dave. I'm not quite sure where your extra four inches come from, however. The bezel between the wheel and the dash on a mechanical system has to be about four inches deep and that would be replaced by the hydraulic pump on the BayStar unit, wouldn't it?
Al

jflug · Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 11:04 am Post subject:

Al - I just put the Baystar system on my '81 Angler about 4 months ago. The Baystar helm does extend a bit further out, but it made virtually no noticable difference on my boat. I did have to take my single engine off to insert the guide tubes in the motor. The older style hull has a narrow transom well, and there wasn't enough clearance to the side without pulling the engine back slightly. You might have the same problem with interference from the second engine, but it wasn't too big an ordeal for me.

After using it summer, I have to say I absolutely love it and I'd highly recommend the Baystar system. I think the hardware is plenty sturdy; my unit may be the newer style Dave talked about. The other difference that Les points out is that the cylinder is stationary, so you don't have those really stiff hydraulic hoses flexing every time you turn the wheel. The hose material used for the Baystar is much easier to deal with also - You just cut the hoses and slip on the compression fittings. The Seastar uses the high pressure hose with swaged ends, which means the hose ends have to be made up by a hydraulics shop. That can get really expensive when you're installing the autopilot.

My $.02 - Jim F

Chivita · Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 6:19 pm Post subject:

Al

Unfortunatly I do not have Chivita nearby to measure the exact distance that the Baystar bezel/pump protrudes from the console or I'd get you a measurement. When we compared the difference from the cable system we saw on a new (2002) boat at the factory, it was a noticable amount to us, but it was not a problem. Now, if I had a well developed beer belly, it could have been an issue.

Between my father and I, we have installed several of the BayStar and SeaStar systems that were purchased via West Marine. We have found that if you have any issues with the hydraulic rams, all you need to do is call either West Marine or the Teleflex office and they will go out of their way to either help fix the issue or ship you the part necessary to fix it. Teleflex has a great web site that has all the different diagrams depending on what system you buy and what motor(s) you are installing them on. They have exchanged hydraulic rams for us in order to make it work correctly for either no or little additional cost. Jim is the second C-Dory owner who I have heard from that has installed the newest BayStar system with no problems so it sounds like they have the ram issue figured out. I know Teleflex was very interested with my issues as we were one of the first that had installed the BayStar on twin 40 Hondas. Perhaps we got to be "guinea pigs"!

You will love the difference the hydraulic system makes, especially in rough sea when you have to make frequent steering corrections!

"Chivita" Dave

MOOSE · Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 8:28 pm Post subject:

I appreciate all of your feedback, guys. I spoke with the indefatigable Les today and he assured me that the BayStar would perform admirably and gave me a couple of tips to ensure that it does. I am not looking forward to pulling the starboard engine to enable installation but a chainfall off a roof truss of the MOOSE barn and the help of a mechanically inclined neighbor should do the trick. Les said the biggest problem might be crawling along the underside of the gunwale and galley and snipping off three million cable ties and I'm inclined to agree with him. Anyway, I look forward to going hydraulic!
Al
BTW, I found BayStar for sale at www.foreandaftmarine.com in Florida for $499.99 and WM matched the price, plus I used a coupon for free shipping and so saved $175 total + West Advantage points! Caveat emptor!!!