Permatrim---thumbs up or thumbs down?

Wandering Sagebrush

Greets,

I am getting ready to buy a Permatrim plate for Constant Craving, but thought I would solicite input from folks before I do. I know this is a repeat topic for many folks, but I would appreciate your input.

Kind Regards,

Steve

Bearbait · Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:56 pm Post subject:

I installed one last winter, best money I've spent on the boat.

Jazzmanic · Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:56 pm Post subject:

I've said it before, I'll say it again. I love the Permatrim. Thumbs Up

Sneaks · Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:13 pm Post subject:

I've had one sitting on a shelf in my garage for almost two years. Finally installed it (I also have trim tabs). The jury's still out on how well it works in heavy chop or heavy weather (hard to find here in San Diego) but I can say the slow speed maneuverability is greatly improved. I'm impressed.

Don

Doryman · Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:45 pm Post subject:

(Only have two hands!)

Wandering Sagebrush

Thanks for the feedback! The order goes in tomorrow!

Steve

oldgrowth · Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:31 pm Post subject:

You won’t regret it.
________
Dave

marvin4239 · Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:51 pm Post subject:

I had one on my 16 and really liked it.

smittypaddler · Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 11:09 am Post subject:

Three questions:

1. I have twin Honda 40's. Is there any chance the permatrims will interfere with each other, e.g. make physical contact?

2. On my best days I only get 4.25 mpg, and have averaged 3.75 mpg over 7500 miles. Would Permatrims increase my mileage?

3. How difficult are these to install? Can a person like me with five thumbs on each hand manage it, or would I have to go to a professional?

drjohn71a · Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 11:30 am Post subject:

Smittypaddler,

I love my Permatrims, but as Bob of Thataway attests, they can lower your top end speed and, if tipped down much, will lower your mpg efficiency.

Mine seem to have an effect similar to a longer hull length when just set flat, parallel with the hull. In this position, my boat planes a bit earlier and I get good mpg. When the sea is rough and I want to go head on with minimum pounding at higher speeds, I tip them down a bit and the ride really smooths down. However, the fuel use per mile goes up some too. Maybe 1/2 to 1 mpg less. To me, it is worth it in these conditions.

As I mentioned earlier somewhere else, the Permatrims really increase the "rudder" effect of your outboard at slow, coasting speed, such as when in neutral approaching a dock float. Seems like more of a sailboat rudder going for you.

Also, they provide a handy boarding platform. I can crawl up on one, reach the engine tilt switch on the side and "elevate" me up to the swim step. This has come in handy when I fell overboard once when the swimstep ladder was not in place.

Do keep in mind though that the top speed will probably come down a bit about 2 mph I think.

They don't interfere with one another to my knowledge. I think if you bought one of those small, clamp-on drill guides, you'd have no trouble installing one. 8-10 small holes drilled in easily accessible area.

John

Alok · Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 11:32 am Post subject:

The mileage will certainly not go up; the mileage and top speed might go down by a fraction. That has been my experience. In fact, I posted a query to that effect on a previous thread. Below, I am copying the response from Sea Wolf which I found useful:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Alok-

Not having fuel monitors, I've not seen the mileage drop with various hydrofoils, but instead have noticed a mile or two drop in top speed.

It's the same thing, either way, caused by the drag of the water on the foil surfaces.

It's probably minimized when the foil is at a non-tilted angle, more when tilted to trim the boat.

Trim tabs also drag the same way with the same effects.

It's a nice feature, but not without some drawbacks.

Same old story: No free lunch!

marvin4239 · Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 11:36 am Post subject:

I can't really answer your first two questions but as far as installing them they are very easy. If you can operate a magic marker to lay out the holes a drill to drill them and a screw driver and a wrench to tighten the screws they are a snap. It is a little unnerving drilling a hole in your motor. They come with instructions. One thing they are kind of pricey compared to similiar items but there quality is superb. One thing I noticed is they helped me get on plane quicker which would increase gas mileage but then I guess you have to figure in the drag created by them.

As far as mileage I noticed on my 16 when I installed a level for lateral trim and paid close attention to my fore and aft trim my mileage increased.

oldgrowth · Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 8:26 pm Post subject:

I cannot speak for the 22 but on my 16, my average speed increased by 4 to 5 MPH. The reason for this is before the Permatrim, my bow would get too high and start floating then start porpoising. It had to be dead calm and the water glass smooth before I could get above 27 MPH. After the Permatrim, even with some ripple and wind, I could get up to 35 MPH
________
Dave

westward · Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 11:56 pm Post subject:

I too have twin 40's and recently purchased permatrims. I haven't installed them yet but I have no concern about them hitting each other, etc. The installation seems clear and easy; all fasteners are provided, they are sized to your motor, and all you need to buy is a small size tube of 5200. My thinking is as follows: As compared to our old 22 cruiser, the new boat is definitely stern-heavy. (curiously, though, it absolutely pounds less in a 1 foot chop condition despite not being able to nose down as much as I like). This is due of course to the additional weight of 4-stroke motors, more batteries, large fuel tanks, etc. But the boat was designed for less weight, and I must admit the old cruiser had a lighter feel underway and a more level planing attitude. I'm thinking that the 2 Permatrims will give the boat a few inches of hydrodynamic lift in the stern, which will allow the boat to perform more like it was originally designed to, will lower my minimum planing speed, and decrease overall friction (ie water displacement) in my normal cruising speed range, which is 20mph or less. I'm also hoping the Permatrims augment the trim effect I get from twin motors, reducing the need for trim tabs, which I've declined to have installed in the interest of mechanical simplicity and hull integrity. They may well add drag at the top end. Maybe I'm just talking myself into all of these benefits, but the feedback I've gotten from here and elsewhere has been overwhelmingly positive. I will report back honestly once they're installed and I've tried them out. Best, Mike.

Wandering Sagebrush · Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:18 am Post subject: 5200?

Has anyone used 5200 on their Permatrims, and then needed to pull the plate off??? I know that the installation guide lists 5200 as one of the sealants, but having tried to remove some stuff that was bedded in 5200, I am hesitant to use it for this application. I think I am going to go with Boatlife, which is also on the list.

Thoughts?