16' Cruiser with Radar?

blueseas · Joined: 16 Jul 2007 Posts: 9 State or Province: MD

All,

I've been reading various sections of this site for a few weeks and I think it's absolutely wonderful that there are so many helpful and knowledgeable folks when it comes to the C-Dory. I've been searching for a hard top pocket cruiser that I can tow with my Ford Ranger yet have a v-berth for weekend cruising and I've decided upon a 16' Cruiser.

On the subject of electronics, I've been doing some homework and am pondering how to outfit the boat. There are a lot of "package" deals for the Raymarine C70 available, and I was thinking about the DSM300 Digital Sounder Model, Raystar 120 GPS receiver, and RD218 18 inch 2kW radome. I've seen a similar Raymarine setup in person and believe it to be a well-integrated solution for the price, particularly considering how it can interface with a computer and has radar overlays for the chart view.

This leads me to question #1 - has anyone decided to put radar on a 16' Angler or Cruiser, and if so, do you have pictures of the installation? Do you have any regrets or suggestions for how to install it or what to avoid?

Both the wife and I like to fish and I've seen pictures on this site of 22' Cruisers with a low radar arch installed with rocket launchers, I believe they came from outfits like Brooks Marine.

This leads me to my second question - For those that have installed radar on the 16 footer, anyone use a radar arch? Is this overkill for a small cruiser?

I like the smaller cruisers a lot, particularly for weekend gunkholing, but am looking to outfit it for the occasional near shore fishing expedition on the Atlantic and want the benefits that radar and satellite weather have to offer.

Thank you in advance, and again, it's nice to see such a great site with terrific folks.

--Scott

Jeff Brigner · Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:09 pm Post subject: radar

What is the difference in price on the 2kw and 4kw radar? Is it close enough to make the move up since your going new? I don't have answers really on your questions just think if I had it to do over I would look at the more powerful radar. It sounds like your going to have the boat set up nice! I would say if you want an arch to get the radar up a little go for it!

TyBoo · Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:31 pm Post subject:

The only 16 with radar I can think of off hand is C-Pup. You can see some pics of his unique setup in his album.

About the only other help I can be is to offer an opinion on this question:

blueseas · Joined: 16 Jul 2007 Posts: 9 State or Province: MD

Thanks for the reply, Jeff!

The MSRP on the 4kW radar is $2,210 vs $1,415 for the 2kW. The 2kW radar is an 18 inch dome vs the 4kW which is 24 inches. The combo C70/2kW radar/GPS receiver package retails from West Marine for $2,399 but my local shop is willing to put together an entire system for a discounted price if purchased at one time. I'll talk to the shop to find out what the price difference would be.

I have several good reasons for installing a radar arch, including:

I've been on a few boats with radar and in my opinion you can't beat the safety that it adds. Combined with integrated systems like the Raymarine just makes sense, especially when you have so many displays into one unit that takes up so little space.

Thanks again for the reply.

blueseas · Joined: 16 Jul 2007 Posts: 9 State or Province: MD

thataway · Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:15 pm Post subject:

I tend to keep my radar on small power boats as low as possiable. If you are going to be running in fog, at night or use the radar for following rain cells, then go for it. You will not be able to put a radar which will be able to see birds on the 16.

There is no radiation risk to the passangers when they are under the radar dome. As long as the GPS antenna is not in the Radar beam, again no risk to the GPS antenna. The vertical beam of small boat radars are approximately 30 degrees--15 degrees up and 15 degrees down.

I don't see any sense in mounting the GPS antenna above the radar dome.

We put the bottom of the dome on the TC 255 about 12" off the cabin top so the beam aft would visually clear the air conditioner. The CD 25 will be about half that. We have done the "commode mount" on 4 radars now and it works great--costs about $10. Use a 4" heavy wall PVC pipe and the commode flanges on each end of the PVC pipe section you cut--the bracket under the radar dome is made of Starboard--the cable goes into the back of the 4" tube with a cable clam (Blue Seas, to seal the cable entrance). The lower flange is mounted to the cabin top--hole in the middle to allow the cable entrance to the pilot house inside.

The problem mounting radars up high on arches, is that there is always the risk of hitting the dome/antenna on some obstruction.

I have used a radar arch on a boat where I needed to get the radar, antennas etc up off the deck (9' up). But I don't use "rocket launchers" on our boats. I can see that if you use rocket launchers that you would want to get the radar well above them.

Even on our ocean crossing motorsailors, we have never had a radar more than 2KW--just not necessary. If you want to look for large ships, in todays world, consider AIS--lots more information than radar and is a good suppliment.

I have always kept my radar, chart plotters and depth sounders separate. I don't want a problem with a single display or unit to knock out all of my navigation ability. But I understand that the helm space in the 16 is limited. On the other hand, I would still go with as large a display as you can afford. If you start splitting up radar, GPS plotter and Fishfinder on even a 10" screen, it starts getting pretty small....detail is important.

I am old fashioned and prefer my radar display separately, so I am not "confused" by chart plotter items.

Go for the radar--

starcrafttom · Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:27 am Post subject:

"Keep the radar low"? A radar can only see as far as the horizon, and the horizon is not a static distance. the higher you or your radar are off the ground then the farther the horizon is ( well the farther you can see) With our C-dorys ,even with a radar arch, you will not get the full effect of the larger 24" radar because you can't see that far from your radar height. a sail boat will be able to see a lot farther with the radar 20 ft off the water then we can at 8 ft off the water. so save your self some money and get the smaller radar. you would never be able to utilize the full range of the bigger unit.

And how far is far enough? you are not going to hit a boat, shore rock or whatever that is 20 miles away. you will however hit a kayaker in the fog that is 100 feet ahead of you. play with the radar gain and sea state settings. I have tracked a kayaker with mine as far as 1 mile and as close as 300 ft. love the target tracking features on these units.

they say you cant track birds with a dome unit, just a open array, they are wrong. Well sometimes they are right, just hae to play with the unit.

one last thing, here goes the stirring stick, why would you not want the radar overlay?, other then not every having done it before and you still light the bbq with flint too. this is not a question of more then one unit. if I had the money and space I would have two units, with different power sources ( sorry but five gps units running off the same battery is not "back up".)but really why would you not want to see what that green blob is at 4 o'clock. is it boat? buoy? well with over lay i can rule out half my choices. If its a buoy you will know with the over lay. Also one last tip if you have never had radar or served as a squid, GET THE OVER LAY!!!!! Just my humble opinion.

p.s. before I get slammed. I was smiling the whole time I was typing and I do carry a back up system that never fails. Map and a hand held compass. learned it in the marines and it will get me home every time. also have a hand held ( see different power source ) gps. and really if you have a good map with gps numbers listed all you need is a basic gps with a "go to' function, map on gps not required and a waste of money if you are not in the area you have a back ground map for. my gps cost $98 new and are on ebay all the time for $50 used. thanks for reading.

starcrafttom · Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:36 am Post subject:

p.s.s. I always run my radar, sunny day with unlimited sight or pouring rain and fog, its always on. if you run it all the time you will learn what it is you are looking at and the limitaions of the unit. Also you will learn as I did that on sunn days the radar will see a lot more then you do! really suprising but its true. Flat days are the worst for picking up moving objects on the horizon. radar sees them with out sunglasses or squinting. I always run mine while untied from the dock.

lloyds · Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:05 pm Post subject:

How about power consumption for that suite of electronics and radar? The 50 only puts out so many amps and I know radar is an amp gobbler.

oldgrowth · Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 8:16 pm Post subject:

Scott – I have a 16” Cruiser (well it use to be a 16) and have just added radar, gps, chart plotter and sonar all networked to my boat. I installed the new Garmin 18” 4 kw dome. Got it from West Marine for just under $900. I built my own mount. Finding places to mount the electronics can be challenging on the 16. I will post pictures of it in my album next week.

I am not posting pictures of my stretched boat until after the BH CBGT.

PS: welcome to the site and the C-Brat community.
________
Dave

blueseas · Joined: 16 Jul 2007 Posts: 9 State or Province: MD

blueseas · Joined: 16 Jul 2007 Posts: 9 State or Province: MD

blueseas · Joined: 16 Jul 2007 Posts: 9 State or Province: MD

blueseas · Joined: 16 Jul 2007 Posts: 9 State or Province: MD

starcrafttom · Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:48 pm Post subject:

blue it sound like you fly a little. What type of plane do you have. I don't fly my self but both my parents are pilots. They have had a 152, a piper cherokee ( I think) low wing and a cardinal in the past. now they just fly dads CJ-6. Dad just flew the arlington air show. He just earned his Fast card for formation flying. Really loves it.