Maiden Voyage with new Dory and 80 hp Yamaha was a flop...

[Beartrack]

Thanks Thataway - what would be the most cost-effective way to build a setup for polishing this 40+ gallons of fuel... do I need to purchase a separate Racor to do this? I'm guessing the cheapest containers to hold it during filtering will be a bunch of 5 gallon buckets but also open to any thoughts there folks might have.

When I upgraded the water separator/filter that was inline before the motor, it was a "Sierra" brand 26 micron filter. I upgraded the size to a canister about 6" tall, went with a Merc, 10 micron. But especially having put the Sea Foam fuel system cleaner in there I could see how that along with the oxygenated summer fuel could bring some gunk into suspension.

I dropped the boat off yesterday at 3-Rivers Marine in Woodinville to do a general tune up and charging system check and they are going to give the whole motor a once-over to find out for sure what all I'm working with here... $500 they want... ouch! But I want to know for sure if I should keep spending time whittling away at this plus they will be in a much better position to properly adjust the carbs so 2 aren't running so rich.

Also, in the midst of all this (sigh) I got in the back of the boat Sunday and found that the long cleat that holds in the starboard tank had popped out. Closer inspection showed balsa rot and standing water around 2 of the screws when I drilled the area out. So far it looks like it's limited to an area close around the screws. But at this point I'm getting pretty frustrated with all of this and told them to go drill out all 5 screws for both tanks cleats, find out the extent of the water damage (in case there was any on the other screws that didn't show) and fill all 10 with Marinetex or Epoxy or whatever is best . So that's where it's at currently. Couldn't afford any more time off work to be doing all this, though they wanted another $355 to do the screws/Marine-tex. Grr... Are these guys unusually high or does that checkup of the engine and that fiberglass/Marine-tex work sound normal to folks here?

Anyway, thanks everyone for the info!!! What a super site!

Oh, and C-Weed, you were right! On both overflow vents the 2 holes for each were pointed as follows; 1 about 15 degrees forward and the other about 15 degrees back... I readjusted both to be 1 down, the other about 30 degrees back. Thanks!

[C-WEED]

Beartrack,

on the vents.

The rot at the fuel tanks mounts can be a common problem if the screw holes aren't sealed good and the boat sits out where water can collect in the cockpit. Just removing and re-installing the fuel tanks loosens the screw holes over time. It is not a great set-up. Several folks on this site have came up with a much better solution for correcting the possibility of rot plus a stronger, better mount for holding the fuel tanks.

I think some made "L" shaped aluminum (or starboard?) brackets and glassed them into the floor. Since you need to remove the rot, now is the best time to search the solutions and come up with a better fix and glass it in as the repair is made. When complete your boat will be much better with stronger fuel tank mounts. Well worth a little effort now since the tanks will be removed.

It always seems to be two things with boats.

1) Finding the problem.

2) Finding a solution to prevent the problem.

[thataway]

The cheapest way to build a polishing system would be to use a automotive fuel pump. I do not like to use these (unless ignition protected--and Walbro makes such a pump at a premium) inside of the boat. We like to attach a hose to the draw tube from the fuel tank, at the priming bulb or the inlet to the engine. (I don't remember if the CD 22 has 1/4" or 5/16" fuel line, but buy fuel line, not clear plastic hose. Good fuel line is also static protected. Keep the pump (mounted on a stand in our case) ouside of the boat, and away from fumes. We use a separate battery away from the boat, and have an ignition protected switch by the fuel pump, so we are not creating an spark when we attatch batteries to the fuel pump. You can use either a filter you have or buy one. I prefer the Racor, because of the clear water separator and availability of the various sized filters (30, 10 and 2 micron). Yes, several 5 gallon cans would be fine. We used two 50 gallon drums (plus we have 40 gallons in five gallon cans we store for hurricane season--so containers are not a problem for us).

Always remember that you are dealing with gasoline, besure that items are grounded, that there are not sparks and the area is well ventaillated.

Agree 100% with Chris. Marine Tex is an epoxy with filler and pigment. It is a little harder and more brittle than what I like for putting screws into, but will work. We use epoxy, with a low or medium density filler to fill in the drilled out screw holes (if we are going to replace the screws). We also undercut the balsa core, to be sure that all wet material is removed. The idea of glassing in alumium tabs is excellent--I would prefer to glass / epoxy to the bottom of any C Dory rather than to drill a hole and screw into it. There are a few places (like bilge pumps) where screws are necessary, but these can be screws driven into epoxy filled areas.

Your problems are not serious--just agrivating. Remember that some new boats have equal or greater problems...You will have it all fixed in a few days and have the rest of the summer. It is tough to loose days or vacation time, when you have a family and are working!

[Dora~Jean]

I forgot to add one thing about pulling plug wires one at a time. If you do it at idle, you're really only checking the idle circuit which may or may not be your problem at running speeds. You can raise the idle artificially by either holding, blocking or actually turning the bottom idle screw (moves all four carbs idles at same time), but remember where it was at originally (#turns). I wouldn't exceed about 1200 rpms with mickey mouse ears for cooling though. At 1200 you're on the edge of getting out of the idle circuit and into the intermediate/run circuit (through the main jets). You're learning a lot I see...every problem seems to have a slightly different twist to find the problem. Good luck (I've been out boating for past 3 days, just catching up).

[mikeporterinmd]

My 2002 with a Honda was rigged with 5/16" fuel line.

Mike

[Beartrack]

Well the Dory is in the 3-Rivers Marine shop up here in Washington and has been since about my last post. They quoted me $500 for a tune-up - then turned around and said partway through they determined that carb#4 on the Yamaha 80 needed a rebuild and I should do all 4 at the same time. They want about another $850 for rebuilding the 4 carbs and can start Monday. Before I go ahead with it, does this seem extremely high for anyone else - especially since they are already charging nearly $500 for the tune up ON TOP of that? I feel a bit like I'm getting shafted here... I mean wouldn't they need to do the tune up if they had just rebuilt the carbs anyway (especially given that I'd just replaced the spark plugs, fuel filter and fuel/water separator last week)?

Any advice would be great - I'll be picking the boat up tomorrow to mount some rod holders and the down riggers and I'm trying to determine if I'm getting a reasonable deal on the carb rebuild or should push back on them about the possible double-charging as they know I'm pretty new to the boating passtime. They just charged me $350 also for drilling out the 10 gas tank deck cleat screw holes, then filling them with Marine-tex/Epoxy and remounting the screws into it.

I realize that boating fixes in general are pricey, but these prices seem awfully high - for example should drilling out 10 holes and filling them with epoxy really take the 3 hours they quoted me...? Seems awfully long. Anyway, thanks for any advice - even if it's just to say yes, that sounds about right... I'd sleep better getting a few other folks opinions on it.

[416rigby]

It sucks that you are having these problems!

Locally here in Alabama, boat shop labor rates are about 95 bucks per hour. Removing, disassembling, reassembling, reinstalling, and adjusting all four carbs so the engine runs properly would probably take a couple hours per carb, I'm guessing....plus the cost of new parts. If you knew someone in your area who was good with carbs, they could do it for you while you help and you'd also learn to do it yourself...probably cost of a couple of cases of beer.

When we bought our boat, same engine you have, it ran rough for the first little while out because it hadn't been used much the previous year. It didn't want to idle or run at low speed. I adjusted the idle speed (it was set too low) and ran several tanks of gas through it and the problems went away with use.

The flip side is that if the carbs are rebuilt, they'll probably last forever...and you'll be a happy camper.

Think it over before you shell out the dough, and I'm sure others will chime in here.

[thataway]

I would say that it is time to start doing as much of your own work on the boat as you can. $350 to do the epoxy holes seems outrageous to me. I don't care how much the labor is.

I realize that the boat is new to your and not used previously by you--and that you have tried to get the carbs clean to some extent with Seafoam and Ringfree. But I agree if the engine is properly taken care of, that you should not have any more carb problems (using a stabalizer, and I like to run the fuel out of carburated engines when they are not to be used for some time.

It seems a bit high to me for the carb rebuild. I would look into an independant outboard mechanic who will be a bit faster and still do very good work. I personally have found that the independants don't seem to have the padding that some dealerships have...

I might be tempted to see how the boat runs after the work which has already been done is completed.

[Beartrack]

...I swung by the shop today to take a look and it's good I did. It appears that on the balsa core gas tank cleat repair they only did the gas tank front cleats and forgot to do the side cleats... and the ones they did look like they didn't go any further back into the rotten wood than the 5/8" holes I'd already drilled. And the Marine-tex work looked pretty sloppy when the hole were filled. Very disappointing. <sigh>

This would have been be a much easier decision if I was on salary, but as work hourly with unlimited overtime right now, time spent doing my own work has to be weighed against the lost OT... but when this poor of quality of work and forgetting to even do some of it comes into play, it's pretty clear I may have made the wrong call on just letting the shop do it and expecting really nice quality at the end of the job.

Thanks for the feedback on the work guys and if anyone happens to know a good Yamaha mechanic that isn't really backed up right now in Washington in the Kirkland/ Bothell/ Lynnwood / Everett area, please do let me know before Monday when that shop is supposed to do the carb rebuild. I'm really looking to get the boat out to Sekui/Neah bay before the peak of the salmon season is over out there. Take care folks and thanks for all the input!

[gljjr]

While he is a bit of a drive north, I think I would give Les at EQ a call and see if he would do the work. We all know how conscientious he is! I just wish I could convince him to work on my old beater.

Barring that, I have actually had good (but expensive) luck with Steve at I-90 Marine in Issaquah. But they have had a LOT of boats in their lot the past couple weeks.

$500 for a tune up plus $800 for the carbs sounds way too high to me. Shoot, if I wasn't so far behind on my boats I would do it. Carb rebuilds are a piece of cake to do. The hardest part is getting them synced back up once you re-install them. And even that isn't too hard if you have multiple vacuum meters.

[C-WEED]

I'll guess your engine has less than 300 hours on it. It is a fact that the number 4 carb didn't work any harder than the 1, 2, or 3 carbs have done since new. SO, why does number 4 need a rebuild? What constitutes a rebuild? Most rebuild kits are just a few gaskets, o-ring and a spring. And since the rebuild kit usually covers many different carbs you don't even use all the stuff you paid for. Rebuild sounds like major work, (compared to carb cleaning) therefore charge major money.


What does the shop consider a tune-up? Since you already changed the plugs, filters and such, they will probably just check the timing (I am pretty sure it is good). And maybe synchronies the carbs (which are probable good, as well after they are cleaned). Are they going to check the valve adjustment? (Again, probably good) I doubt that valve check/adjustment is part of a tune-up, most likely charge extra. Maybe oil change? Easy to do yourself.

I am like you. Punch a time clock. And have all the overtime I can handle. Ever check your hourly rate on overtime? Funny how you make A LOT more per hour on overtime but after taxes you get A LOT less than regular time per hour....: amgry

OK, back to you boat troubles.

I am sure your problem is most likely a spec of fly dirt (that’s all it takes to make trouble) in your main jets. All your carbs should be cleaned. If you want, just clean the number 4 carb and take it out for a test run. Chances are good it will purr... This can easily be done by you. I would suggest you buy a good repair manual, ask questions here if needed and have at it. Take a few digital photos of you engine before you take stuff apart. This is handy to refer to later or to post here for any questions. It isn't difficult to pull the carbs and clean them one at a time. Just think of the satisfaction you will have when you pull that number 4 carb and aside from a bit of varnish build up see that it looks like new inside. If you don't tear the gasket up when you remove the float bowl they can be reused. If you have a neighbor or a co-worker that is experienced in this kind of stuff they are a good friend to have. Your local library may not have your exact engine manual. I bet they will have one that will cover the basic steps to clean the carbs on any outboard engine. Check it out.

As you have experienced. You have paid big money out and received poor results thus far. Unless you stand over their shoulder, will you really know if they work on all four carbs? Or just work on the #4 carb that is giving you troubles and charge you for the rest? Did they ever diagnose your charging problem? Is it good or faulty?

I have always tried to fix things myself. There are some great people out there doing an honest job. But you never know until after you pay what you end up with. I do what I can and then if I can't, seek assistance. I always buy a special tool if needed VS. the high labor rate. That is a great way to justify buying tools. If I pay someone $95 dollars and hour to work on my outboard he should be an expert and his last name should be Yamaha.

I think you should drag that boat back to the house and learn the maintenance basics and your boats systems, save money and have the satisfaction of doing it yourself. Then you know it's done to your satisfaction. You'll be on the water soon enough.