Tomcat vs 25 Cruiser

[Forty Two]

The TC is a pain in the posterior to launch and retrieve. Everything else about it great.

[thataway]

Fishbob--do you have 8 foot slicks on the front of the trailer? It makes a huge difference.

[cdworld]

fishbob,

is this an unqualified gripe? Are there certain instances where it is a pain or is it always a pain? (steep ramp vs shallow ramp)

thanks for your comments.

[Discovery]

cdworld,

Having owned both the 24' TomCat and the 255 TomCat maybe I can shed some light on the launching problems.

The 24' TomCat on the EZ Loader Trailer was a genuine Pain to launch and load. There were no slicks on the trailer bunks, the anchor would catch on the bow stop, and I had to power off every time. Hoping the anchor would clear. The steeper the ramp, the better chance to snag the anchor. The raw water pickup is on the starboard pontoon, toward the front. It usually caught on the bunk carpet and caused problems.

Loading was even worse. The whimpy guide-on's would not direct the boat onto the bunks. If a side wind was blowing the boat would end up bending the guide-on's over. I tried them both inside and outside the pontoons, with the same result. The steeper the ramp the harder it was to load.

I ended up making my own inside and outside guide-on's. See the Discovery Album , TomCat 24 Cygnet, Sub Album for pix. The new homemade guides solved the loading problems, and getting EZ Loader to replace the original bow stop, solved most of the launch problems. See the new split bow stop in the same Album.

The 255 TomCat has been much easier to launch and load. EZ Loader copyed my inside guide-on with the new trailer. Also the bunks have slicks on the front portion. The anchor rarely snags on the bow stop. Over all launching is only a problem with a really shallow flat ramp. I have on occasion had to back way out at Lake Powell, with the low water conditions.

Loading is also much better with the TC255. I have experienced problems getting straight on the trailer once or twice, but it's only if we back too far in. The guide-on does a good job unless the trailer is too deep and the back is too low. I usually power on, and only have to winch the last 2 or 3 inches, to snug up to the bow stop.

Over all the main difference is in the trailers. The EZ Loader for the 24' TomCat is a piece of crap. The New trailer for the TC255 is much better.

A 24 TomCat on the new TC255 trailer might not have all the problems we experienced.

Some of you have the 24' TomCat on trailers from other manufacturers. What are your experiences?

[cdworld]

[Dora~Jean]

I'd go two adults up front, two kids on the dinnette. Put each kid in their own sleeping bag and have them sleep head/toe (opposite). The CD-25 I believe has a slightly wider dinnette seat and table, not sure, but mine is definitely wider by about 7-8" beyond the standard CD-25. I can move my cushions towards the isle to utilize the cushion's dead space under the outside walkway (I still owe pictures--sorry). I also lengthened the table by about 7 inches, seats 4 much better now.

On the rest of equipment, I stow the raft/dingy folded up front on the bow. Then I'd downsize to double kayaks and stow both on the roof (or get blow-ups like I have). Get folding bikes and stow them in the cockpit tied to eye bolts.

It can be done and the family really won't mind the closeness when they're in awe of the scenary! I have 3-5 people on most weekend trips (3 days).

[thataway]

cdworld--have you looked at the C Ranger 25?--that has the best sleeping arrangements--peroid. Also may be better for the kayaks--especially with custom racks. Yes, one can sleep in any of these arrangements--I spent the years from age 10 to age 18 sleeping in the cockpit of my parent's 26 foot sailboat--and it was fine...but a bit of a pain covering the cockpit, blowing up the air matress etc.

As to other trailers--we had the first Float on Trailer--and it is much better (in my opinion) than at least some of the other trailers. Look at the Thataway Album. So far no launch problems--but I might consider a from of tongue extension for very very shallow ramps. The problem is that the boat has to be over the fenders, so it is about 31" high at the stern off the road--plus 18" to float the boat--or about 4 feet of water at the ramp where the stern sits as you launch.

[squidslayer]

The Tomcats floor between the table and sink is 9 ft long and I think at least 28inchs wide ..you could sleep another person on the floor or go bowling...
if you can afford it ..Go tomCat
The 25 dory is a great boat
BUT there is nothing like a Cat.

Dick
TomCat 255
ShirleyMae

[Gene Morris]

CDWorld, We have the TC255 and love the space. We do not have little ones but we do have a large Golden Retriever who frequently joins us in the queen+ berth. Plenty of space. I say give the gals the berth and you take the dinette. That way you are closer to the coffee and can take your wife a cup first thing in the morning. You can put the girls to bed early and stay up to watch a movie or a beautiful sunset of rise early to greet the day without disturbing the young ones.

[Alasgun]

CD World,I'm not sure how closely you follow these threads, but a while back the factory posted some information about a "to be released" boat that looked to maximize trailerability! Something around 28 ft if I remember correctly. You might check with them if this is something you would be interested in. It could be farther out than your wanting to wait also, the itch is easily understood! Good Luck
Mike

[Sea Wolf]

Here's a couple of links to the discussion of the new C-Dory Venture 29:

CD Venture 29 Line Drawing (and discussion)

New C-Dory Model Update

I'd really suggest you attend on of the C-Brat Get-Togethers with your wife and girls to see all the models and their size/space relationships in relation to your needs. I'd think a C-Dory is going to be very small after the Nordhavn 46.

Enjoy!

Joe.

[thataway]

The Beam on the Venture 29 is 9' 6" and in my opinion this precludes easy trailerablity. Yes, I owned a boat of that beam--and the weight which goes with it. You will need wide load permits (not that hard to get, but in many rural areas, the extra width is a bit difficult). Also with the size boat the truck is going to have to most likely be more than the usual 1 ton (which I pull the Tom Cat with).

In my experience having anyone sleep on the floor of a boat (even the Tom Cat) is not convient. Sleeping in the Cockpit is better--or all girls in the foreward bunk. I also mentioned in the past, that with a fuller cushion in the area where the feet of the navigator sit, there is about 6' 8" of bunk fore and aft--which leaves a decent amount of catty corner or fore and aft sleeping for smaller folks on the mid to stb side of the foreward bunk.

[Forty Two]

[Les Lampman]

Oh Boy! I can't wait to wade into this one!

First...unless all of you that have a single engine as the main engine don't have a kicker there isn't twice as much maintenance on the Tom Cat. Almost everyone has two engines on the stern; they just may, or may not, be the same size. At least at our shop the cost difference between servicing a Honda BF135/150 and a kicker or a pair of BF135/150's won't buy a good dinner out.

The catamarans are always going to be a little more difficult to launch and retrieve depending on the ramp. Because the hull sides of the cat don't slope as they do on the monohull and they're built 8.5' wide they have to sit high enough to be over the fenders rather than down between them. All other things being equal the lower the boat is on the trailer (closer to the water at launch time) the easier it is to launch and retrieve so the cats start out at a disadvantage but the trailer design for the TC255 works pretty well.

There is a weight difference in the boats but if anyone finds a 3000# CD25 I'll help them eat it. The last one we weighed on the trailer with full fuel, water, and gear was just a bit over 8,000 pounds. The trailer is around 2,000 pounds so the CD25 was about 6,000 pounds in the water. Subtracting the single BF150, kicker, fuel, water and gear put the hull around 4,200 to 4,500 pounds.

I've not had the opportunity lately to weigh the Tom Cat but we may do that with the one we're currently rigging. The last one I remember was around 5,500 pounds; about 1,000 heavier than the CD25. The final boat is much heavier owning to the twin engines, larger fuel capacity, heavier trailer, etc (I figure around 10,000 pounds).

The Tom Cat is generally a more comfortable boat because it has a lower heave factor; that is, it has more weight for its waterplane area and doesn't react as abruptly. When running in rougher conditions it has less pitching motion that the CD25. Because there are two roll centers in the Tom Cat (one for each hull) it also exhibits much less roll that even a monohull of the same beam.

The Tom Cat can become less comfortable than a CD25 in certain conditions because of its shape. If waves are slapping the underside of the bridgedeck it's not a comfortable situation but this is often alleviated by changing course slightly. At anchor in some conditions this can be difficult and a stern anchor could come in handy.

The Tom Cat has a much wider potential speed range than the C-Dory 25. It's easy to run the TC255 at 30 knots in conditions that would be totally uncomfortable in the CD25 at 20 knots. This is to be expected; it's what the TC255 is designed for and why it has double the horsepower on the stern.

The C-Dory 25 and Tom Cat start out around $15,000 apart for the base hull (they have similar standard equipment). If you choose a BF150 Honda for your main engine on the CD25 then the engines on the TC cost double since there are two of them (less the cost of a kicker in the $3000 range on the CD25). The trailer under the TC255 runs about $3000 more than the trailer under the CD25. The difference is about $40K which, of course, will vary with specific choices. Of course you're buying a bigger boat. The TC255 has equivalent room to most 27-foot monohulls because the motors are on a bracket, because the forward berth is sideways, and because the hull sides don't slope in.

With two kids aboard I'd pick the Tom Cat 255 hand's down if I had a truck/SUV/motorhome that would tow it and the difference in money wasn't an issue. Why? Because it's a better kid's boat and it's a bigger boat giving the family more room (see above). It's a better kid's boat because it's easier to see out of (kids don't have to climb up on everything (including people) to see what's going on and where they're going) and this is helped with the flat running attitude the Tom Cat generally has at cruising speeds. It's a better kid's boat because it's easier for the adults aboard to keep track of the kids because the deck level is the same from the berth to the stern; it's a lot harder for the kids to end up somewhere that you can't see them and they're less likely to take a header coming into the cabin or dashing out to the cockpit.

In addition, the aft cockpit is perfect for a bunkhouse with the addition of a camper canvas enclosure; with screen or "glass". In fact, it's big enough a couple of cots, or a big air mattress would work great. This isn't as good on the CD25 where the motorwell protrudes into the cockpit.

And finally...we're comparing a 25-foot $100,000 Apple with a 27-foot $140,000 Orange; if they both weren't built by C-Dory it's not likely that we'd be comparing them so directly and they really don't deserve to be since they each fill the requirements of the folks that buy them for totally different reasons.

Finally, it's speed that defines a boat the most. It influences every nuance of the design and it shows up on every trip. In my assessment the C-Dory 25 is a 15 to 20 knot cruiser (of course in flat water you can go much faster and in the rough stuff you have to slow; that's also true for the Tom Cat) and the Tom Cat a 25 to 30 knot cruiser. Which speed range appeals to your use and needs more?

[New Hampshire Guy]

Just when I was going to chime in, and then Les does it better...