Kicker Power

[Joni Lynn]

I'm needing some input here to help me make a decision. My 22 is powered by a Johnson 70, 4 stroke. For a kicker, I'm thinking of putting on a Nissan (or similar) 4/5/6 HP 4 stroke. Will the 4 or 5 HP push my 22 home in case I need it? Considering I might have to run uphill against a 3 knot current on the Miss. (and lets toss in a bit of wind), am I going to have enough power? I don't care about the speed, just so I can cripple home, or at least get out of the way so I'm not a hazard to other traffic. What is the minimum power before it becomes useless? Thoughts? Experiences?
Thanks folks.
Paul aboard the Joni Lynn

[thataway]

I happen to advocate a bit less hp than many others do--and it is based on my experience. When you have a 3 knot current, you may well need for than the 4 hp minimum. In that case I would go for 8 or 10 hp. There are also high thrust low speed motors (also called big foot, or sail drives).
This swing larger props and at a slower speed, more effecient for low speed boats. I have related before I made many trips to Catalina in a 26 foot boat with as much windage and more weight than a C Dory25 with a 5 hp outboard as the primary power (when there was no wind). I have also moved a 62 foot, 60,000 ton boat at 2.5 hp with a 4.5 hp outboard.

I routinely used a 3.5 hp outboard to move a 27 foot 10,000 lb boat acros a sand bar, even against 15 knots of wind--but it was slow. At a certain speed the low hp becomes less effecient because of the current or wind it has to work against.

If you are pushing against 3 knots of current consider at least 6 hp and preferably 9.9 hp. That will give you boat speed of 5 knots even against wind.--not a lot of margin, but enough to get home.

[teflonmom]

We used a 5HP Nissan 2 stroke on our Rosborough 246. It was not fast but it did provide a little get home power. The main use for the 5 HP was to power the dink. The 5HP was sure all I could handle between the big boat and the dink. We used an AIR FLOOR 81/2' inflatable. We carried it on the roof fully inflated. I think it weighted about 45 pounds. We did not have the 5HP connected to the outdrive so we ran it from the stern and looking around the large deck house was a little scary in heavy traffic.

[Swee Pea]

Paul:

I am somewhat in the same position that you are .. except that I have examined closely my particular needs. I need to power a Mercury Air 270 inflatable. For that I have chosen (finally) a 6 HP Tohatsu/Nissan/Mercury. When not in use on the inflatable, I want to use it on my 22 Cruiser as a kicker, for emergencies only. It is not the most efficient motor choice, but it "beats paddling home". I have been agonizing over which motor is best for my situation. The 6 in a short shaft is perfect for the inflatable, but marginal for the C Dory. Some would argue that the short shaft should not be used on the 20" transom of the C-Dory. Much discussion with Les establishes that I can make the 15" shaft work for both. More to come on another thread. The inflatable will handle a motor up to 10 HP and 86 lbs. A motor of this weight would be too heavy for me to lift and put on/off the C Dory. The 6 hp Tohatsu/Nissan/Mercury weighs 55 lbs, the same as a 5 hp. Still a little heavy, but .... A 4 hp weighs 57 lbs, so I chose the most hp for weight. An 8 and 9.8 hp motor jumps the weight to 81.5 lbs, too much to handle on/off from inflatable to C Dory, but better suited for a kicker.

From all the reading and discussions, not from my personal use, a 9.8 hp motor is an ideal kicker motor on a 22 ... if that is its intended use. Left on the transom or motor mount. But if dual use is your intent, like mine, it is too much for one application - the inflatable.

Just my 2 cents.

John
Swee Pea

[thataway]

One thought on lifting motors on and off C Dories and inflatables; thru the years we have come to the conclusion that any engine over 40 lbs (maybe even lighter) is best transfered using a davit or lift--this saves your back--and in the long run, it may be less expensive..

[Chris Bulovsky]

Paul- I use a Honda 9.9 and have mostly nice things to say about the setup. If you have the ability get the most H.P. you can afford. Most don't regret to much power. If you boat on the Great Lakes a little extra power would be desirable. I tried the 9.9 in 4-5 foot seas.......it works.

I don't know how a 4/5/6 horse would do on the back. The majority of C-Brats have 9.9 or bigger. I would think a 2 stoke 6 H.P. would be plenty of power to limp home in most conditions.

If you ever make it north I could put you on some trout if you like to fish.

Chris Bulovsky

[Joni Lynn]

Thanks all for the responses. Here's the real story. I have a Johnson 9.9 2 stroke that I"ve had hanging on the transom for my kicker for 4 years. Last spring I took it off and went without for the summer. Why? I've probably run the 9.9 a total of 25 minutes in the last 5 years. I don't fish, so I don't troll. Every spring I mix 3.5 gallons of gasolene, start up the kicker for a few minutes to make sure it runs in case I need it, and then it sets there all summer. In the fall I start up the kicker to winterize it and then have to dispose of 3.5 gallons of mixed gasolene because I have no other place or engine in which to use it. The next spring/fall the same old program. As I said, this past spring I took the kicker off and boated all summer without it, but I must say I was a bit uncomfortable not having a backup of sorts. So, I'm now entertaining the idea of swapping my 9.9 for a 4 stroke so I don't have to mix and waste gasolene. To save weight and $$$, and the convenience of easily carrying a smaller motor to the warm basement every fall rather than the traditional winterizing of the 9.9 which is bolted to the transom, I'm looking at the Nissan 4,5 or 6 HP motors. So I have to decide what is the absolutely smallest HP I can go with for a kicker before it becomes so small that it's essentially useless. 90 % of my boating is on the Miss. River. If I do make it to Lake Superior, I'll just take my chances. After all, there are countless single engine boats running around those waters without a kicker, and they appear to fare quite well. I guess what I'm looking for are enough experiences with the smaller motors in the 4 to 6 HP range to convince me that my idea isn't entirely crazy. Thanks again for the responses. As always, the Brats are a very helpful group.
Paul aboard the Joni Lynn

[Casey]

We originally got a Suzuki 15hp (104#) 4-stroke kicker, but after a few years found it to be more than we needed. We downsized to a Suzuki 6hp (54# as I recall...) and it seems to be fine. As I recall it provides Naknek about 4mph.

The Suzuki 6 seems to work well, and installing/uninstalling the 54# motor (versus a 104# motor) make a heck of a difference. Originally we installed the 15 on a Garelick hinged bracket. It worked; but was not optimal. With the hinged Garelick + the 104# motor, things really seems to bounce as we drove down the highway. I have now removed the Garelick bracket, and will install something called a Mini-Jacker when we get back home. ( http://www.thmarine.com/product.cfm?PRID=23 )

I've seen the Mini-Jacker on some C-Dory's and it appears to be an excellent, straightforward solution. the next step will be how to measure the Mini-Jacker installation to accommodate the Suzuki 6 (long shaft) and trim tabs. (If someone has a similar installation I would really appreciate having your measurements and/or a digital photo.)

...hmmm, asking for someone's "measurements" doesn't exactly sound right; but you know what I mean!

Casey
C-Dory Naknek

[Flyer]

You will not use the 4 stroke any more then the 2 stroke will you?

That Johnson 2 stroke is a very good engine, I have the 15hp version and it has been a great motor.

We use our left over oil in our snow blower, we dilute it with more gas.

Another thing to do is to not mix the oil into the fuel until it is necessary, that way you can use it in your 4 stroke. I use a tag that says needs oil. No tag and it ready to use, take your pick.

When we were on Lake Superior we had a kicker and I would want one there.

[ccflyer]

I'm thinking about adding a kicker myself.

I am balancing the benefits of two stroke vs four stroke. While the two strokes are lighter, I'm thinking with the four stroke I wouldn't have to carry a separate fuel tank. I could run a line from the four stroke kicker directly into one of my tanks since the four stroke kicker would have a separate oil resovoir?

[Adeline]

You don't need a separate fuel tank for your 2-stroke kicker.

[C-WEED]

Naknek:

I posted a few pics, page 2 in my album of a Mini Jacker holding a Yamaha 15 and Bennett M120 sportabs. The Mini Jacker helps with kicker turning, clearance at tab level and with keeping the prop out of the water when using the main. The wood 1x1 was needed to raise the two clamps on the kicker up off the stern so they could be tightened. The pin in the kicker mount is in the last hole to keep it away from the tab. If not for the kicker I would have gone way bigger on the tabs but thats another topic.

As I recall I held the mount to the stern with a big c-clamp and one of those sliding quick clamps. Then carefully held up the kicker for a rough hanging after installing the tabs. As you can see with the wood on the mount there is room for small adjustments. Don't forget to check for turning clearance both left and right. And then the thru bolts both above and below the splash well. My boat had big backing plates behind the fuel tanks for the towing eyes to work around. You drill the holes in the mount so mark which dimples you need.

When cruising on the kicker I tilt the main to port. A steering rod will work but I like control from the cockpit in good weather. That gives ample room for turning both directions with a kicker mounted to starboard. I place a cushion on the splashwell edge and lean back on the big top of the main for a comfy seat. Or sit on starboard lazaret and steer with left foot. It's easy when barefoot. You can see surprisingly well thru the aft cabin windows.

You get some strange looks when you pass people and they see nobody inside at the helm, a guy sitting on the back corner, the big engine out of the water and they can't hear or see the little kicker pushing.

[Doryman]