Canvas Question

[Cutty Sark]

Ok, I've read through all the canvas threads, trying to get an idea of what I would like. I have the two local dealers who most people use. But my questions are about upgrades and what you find to be important features.
In your experience what are the musts for a good camper canvas? Anything specific I should look for? This is my christmas so I'm ordering it asap. Any tips would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Sark

[Valkyrie]

Sark,

Based on our experience with our custom canvas, I would recommend having a separate piece that attaches to the back of the cabin from the "bimini" section (see our album). This gives you the ability to get airflow while running or at anchor, while still getting protection from the sun. It's a nice feature.

Also, we had our "bimini" section extend all the way to the transom, which really adds extra protection from both the sun and rain. the cockpit "feels" much larger tis way. Our back "curtain" zips to the bimini and terminates at snaps mid-splashwell, which adds to a roomy feel that the factory camper canvas did not have.

Also, we opted for roll-up plastic windows over the screens in the camper sides.

Finally, we went with the canvas guy's suggestion and had the top way up there at 6'8". I'm 6' 3" and the fatory stuff seemed too confining. At first, we were skptical of the height, but realy like it now.

The added dimensions makes Valkyrie much more liveable for cruising or life at the dock. Pictures are in our album.

Good luck.

Nick
"Valkyrie"

[Flyer]

I presume that you will use Sunbrella. Darker colors last longer. Make sure the cover covers what you want covered.

Make sure that it has vinyl wear patches in the spots where there is a significant chance for wear. Study your anchor and see how you want the cover to handle that area, remember you may change anchors some day, we did. This applies to a lot of features on the C-Dory.

Talk about Tenara thread, its basically gortex and does last about twice as long, its also about twice as expensive. We keep our boat at Lake Powell and the sun really beats up the thread and we have had to redo the stitching about every 4-5 years and consequently have switched to Tenara. You may not need this quality. I do not want to stitch every 4-5 years.

For more info on both fabric and thread here is a catalog site that we have bought from: http://www.sailrite.com/

[thataway]

There are some decisions that you have to make. Probably on a CD 22, 7/8" SS tubing will be adequate--on the 255 we had 1" tubing.

You want the Bimini to have zippers on the bows, so the top can be removed, without removing the frame.

Take the cover all of the way aft--some of the 22 owners like it all of the way to the transom, and the aft window drops straight down..

Agree with awning railing on the top of the cabin--and we used awning railing on the sides of the cabin (see photos in Thataway album 56 thru 61 photos) for a water tight seal foreward. You want to be able to zip out the first 18" to 24" of the top, for both getting in the boat, and ventillation when you need it. Velcro material over the top of the zipper where it meets with the Bimini at the first bow.

Make the front side pannels wide enough to get thru--ours are 30 inches.
24" is enough if you are slender. Make the aft side and front side (side entrance) separately.

Consider having foreward upright supports, so that the Bimni is self supporting (without straps, or having to have the front pannel attatched).

There is a Sunbrella which is waterproof--consider this vs the non waterproof. There is also Sea Mark-which is vinly coat laminated on the inside--I would not use that.

Be sure that you have enough head room under the top-and that there is adequate crown of the bimini.

Get heavy duty clear vinyl--at least 30 mils thickness of clear vinly--or Strataglass (Pressed vinly vs rolled cheaper vinyl).

Have straps to roll up all of the flaps.

Don't make the back sections too large. We have 3 sections across the back and that is better than one piece. You may also want separate corner sections--don't try and bend the vinly--make the back straight across.

You will have to make a decision if you want screens plus the windows. In that case the windows will either zip out or zip on three sides and roll up. We did't go with the screen combination, but made separate screens which will zip in place instead of the pannels.

Consider the bottom fastenings. There are three choices: the turn buttons--more expensive, and may not be as easy to get even under tension. Round snaps (the usual) and the small posts, with spring side, plate which is crimped into the cloth. We choose the latter--easier to snap with older arthritic hands. (illustrated in the album # 59).

Be sure that all seams and zippers are well re-inforced. Use the best zippers that you can buy. Use Gortex thread for all of the seams--at least on the outside (some use a inside(Bobin) of monofiliment)--the Gortex thread will last longer and delay, if not prevent a restitching.

We make sheats of old sheets of towel material for the clear pannels when they are stored below (under the matress or rolled up)--you need to avoid clear vinly against clear vinyl).

The Camper back doubles the living area of the 22 and is a very worth while investment.

[Cutty Sark]

Ok, Called and talked to Dave at King Marine. He helped me out alot since I am so confused. We got most of the details worked out. He uses the 30Mil glass standard on all the canvas, and has his standard factory canvas worked out. Which with a couple changes should be what I need. Here are my questions that I need to figure out. The standard one he does is just one piece on each side. I know alot of people like more than that. What is the benefit of having the sides be two pieces? Should the back be two or three pieces too? Besides that do most people just use sunbrella? He said it is not waterproof but water resistant and breathes, They can use something else called shark something that is water proof and more durable. Should I go for the waterproof stuff? Want to get this order placed so I can get the Canvas done maybe in time for The lake washington cruise and all the christmas ship stuff we will be doing. Thanks for the help.

Sark

[dotnmarty]

I think the two piece side is so that you can get on and off the boat more easily. If it's just one piece and it is snapped to the bulkhead then you will have a much less "graceful" entry and exit. At least that was the case with our 22' boat, where we had `steps up and out of the cockpit.

[ffheap]

Hi Folks,

I put a canvas cover with sides over my cockpit on my 1983 classic angler.

1. Rear section is split in two. easier to get at the engine. Also have plastic zipped over insect screen. When I get a screen for the forward hatch, the cool air will flush out both cabin and cockpit area.

2. Where it is attached to the roof of the cabin, it zips from the outside to the center on both sides. Makes it easier to get in and out. On the Erie Canal trip two years ago, El and Bill did not have this feature. It was tough getting in his boat from a higher dock.

3. I had the frame made larger than the cabin and had a second base put on each side of the deck. I am now able to move the furled top forward at that base, and have the furled top sit on the cabin top. Gives me a wide open cockpit for fishing or USCGAux patrols.

4. I had the canvas maker leave part of the main cross beam open so I could hang a sun shower and a curtain. With DriDek in the cockpit floor, water will go aft and the cockpit will stay dry and I and my crew will not smell as much.

Just one man's ideas.

Fred

[Dreamer]

Sark, There's a fourth option for the lower edge of the canvas. It uses shock cord and keeps the canvas pulled snug even after a few years. I just posted a photo at the end of our album if you care to see it. Good luck.

[mikeporterinmd]

Without repeating all that's been said:

I like lots of eisenglass. It's bright and open feeling, but probably
costs more.

I would use a breathable fabric. The most important thing to make sure
of is that the top is nicely arched so puddles do not develop. Waterproof
fabric or not, the stitching will leak, and surely zippers will. I liked
the Sunbrella we had. It was a lt. tan and lasted very well.

If you think you want to keep your cockpit covered, then order a mooring
cover and use that instead. Much cheaper to replace.

The Tenara thread had a lifetime transferable warrantee when I
bought it. Additionally, the canvas guy said Gore paid a fair rate
for labor (yes, the warrantee included the restiching labor) which means
you would be able to actually get someone to do the work. I know
many people that work for Gore. They are nice people. Buy their
products.

Rollup vinyl has the advantage that you don't have to store it when
you want the screens and vice versus. The downside is that the
screens are always out and so could wear. However, if you don't
leave the camper up all the time when you are not using the boat, then
it will be quite some time before it wears out. Unless you use the boat
all the time. Then I don't know what happens because I am not
retired and have never used a boat for weeks on end, unlike some
of you!

Mike

[thataway]

I had to go to the Glen Raven Mills site (Parent company of Sunbrella) to find the other Sunbrella fabrics:
"
Sunbrella Plus is our traditional Sunbrella marine fabric with a durable polyurethane undercoating for superior water resistance. Sunbrella Plus uses standard Sunbrella colors for coordinating marine applications when both water resistance and breathabilty are essential.


Sunbrella Supreme is a luxurious, waterproof exterior marine fabric featuring Sunbrella canvas on the exterior face, and a special Sunbrella acrylic "flocking" on the reverse side. The unique bonding process creates a waterproof Sunbrella canvas with a beautifully soft feel underneath."

We used the Sunbrella Plus, with the Gortex thread. It is 100% waterproof even with over an inch an hour of rain. I have used Sunbrella bimini/dodgers/covers for over 30 years--and have been in some mightly heavy weather with out leakage problems. A lot has to do with the construction of the item. You may pay more for the better materials initially, but the costs are well worth it in longivity and good fit.

The disadvantage of the Sunbrella Plus and Supreme, is that not all colors may be available, and some of the binders may not be available in the colors-which mean mean a slightly different and more expensive construction technique.

A proper camper Canvas is something that should last 8 to 10 years with proper care, so look at it as a long term investment. Not all canvas workers are willing to take the time to make every boat perfect. My canvas worker made at least a dozen trips to the boat, to be sure that things were right. Insist on a proper fit. A good canvas job will be waterproof and will hold up in heavy winds and spray etc.

The more zippers, the more it will cost. Please look carefully at the Thataway photos. The front of the top and sides are only a couple of inches wide. The foreward top and side pannels are totally removiable by zippers only--(snaps at the bottom).

We choose smaller side windows, because of the privacy issues- but almost all clear vinly on the back. But many like the large clear panels on the side. Look at your goals and make sure that the canvas fulfills those goals.

[Cutty Sark]

Thanks for the info. Can anyone comment on height of the camper canvas, I have most of the details worked out at this point. I have not been inside a canvas made by Dave at king marine and I am wondering how the height in them is. He does the factory ones , so if anyone can comment on that I would greatly appreciate it.


Thanks
Sark