Fish Box Thoughts on my Tomcat

[joeC]

Hi All
Thinking out loud on my fish boxes at this point they are pretty useless. If the boxes are totally filled with ice they will not hold it for 24 hours before melting. So on tuna trips I have to come home because of no ice not good. Coolers on the deck work much better, but they do take a lot of deck space up but they will keep ice. Other issues the macerator pumps are on the second failure not burned up but stopped up with junk and have to be removed and cleaned. This operation is not a lot of fun all 4 batteries the battery box floors have to come out then my head and one arm go in the hatchs to deal with the pumps. Also even with anti siphon loops in the fish box drains the boxes still stay somewhat wet . My thoughts are cut the fish boxes out and use the in bilge ares for storage. The bilge is absolutely drier then the fish boxes also it gives me good service access to the bilge area which now has basically none. In the future I may also install a generator in one of the bilges to get the Honda off the deck. fish boxes were supposed to be insulated during construction
but mine were forgotten no insulation. Without pulling the cap off the boat it is impossible at this point to insulate the fish boxes no access. These are my current issues Ill read any and all advice.

[Best Day]

Hi Joe, sorry to hear about your problems. Is it possible to spray in some type of insulation foam around the fish boxes?

Bill

[thataway]

I agree with Joe. When I first tooked at the Tom Cat, my thought was that the fish boxes would be great ice boxes. I ordered my C Dory with the boxes foamed in. Not too long before the boat was finished I got a call from Jeff Mesmer saying that the boxes were not foame--but a foam core insullation had been installed. The foam core is not adequte insullation. Jeff said that the outside and back, maybe some of the inside could still be insullated from the sides, where the polyethylene boxes in the combing are located. The boat arrived and there was not one ounce of foam--I almost refused the boat--but with the long waiting list, and my age, I accepted the boat.

The boxes leak water from any rain or water getting into the deck. There are rubber gaskets, but the corners have some type of sealant/adhesive where the 45 degree cut is. But the corners are spread and water comes in.

I am not sure what we will do with our boxes--but I would be afraid to remove them and access the bilge, leaving the lids in place with the gaskets. One might be able to make a drain from the channels around the lids, and run this drain to a sump pump--or the bilge. I am not real keen on putting more water in the bilge. There might be room for some of the low profile generators--but I would do some careful measurement before proceeding. One needs good access to the generator. Many of the smaller outboard boats go with small diesel generators for the safety and effeciency--the Tom Cat would be ideal for a diesel generator. I have owned a couple which were in the 4 to 5 KW range and used belt drive on the generator-this makes a longer and low profile unit. Try Apollo @

2440 Reservoir Drive
Norco,CA 92860
USA
Phone:951-279-1239
Fax:951-279-9440

Let us know what you find--good luck!

[dtol]

I wonder if a professional insulator that installs polyurathane foam insulation couldn't help. They insulate walls in existing houses with just a single small hole between studs. I'm not suggesting you drill any holes, however, if you can reach the space with a tube or hose, its possible that it they might know how to do it.

But your right, shouldn't have to deal with this at all.

[thataway]

I had considered this--and have not completely discarded it yet. I have made a number of custom refigerator and freezer boxes, with poured in foam. One has to be very careful because of the expansion--and distorting a hull. It will even break an aluminum mast, when filling with foam to quiet the wires inside. There are low expansion foams--but you do want some expansion--and you want an absolutely waterproof closed cell foam. You don't want waterlogged foam riding along in your boat!

[mikeporterinmd]

[thataway]

We do use block ice with a little crushed for our drinks etc--but if we can buy or freeze it at home--use 90% block. I don't know about Joe. Now ever when you ice down fish, one usually uses crushed ice.

I was thinking about this last night--and decided I will take some of the cheap foam from Lowes/HD and make a liner, probably just do it "raw" at first, and if it works, will do it with glass liner in and out. The top will be a shoe box, so water from the scuppers should not get into the box--and leave an area at the aft end as a sump for pumping out if we are in rough weather. Have to have a drain plug in the liner box--but that is easy.

I think that may be the "best" solution--if you use 1/2 to 1" foam there will not be a lot of volume loss. The boxes are about 5280 cubic inches each as they are. With a liner 4500 cubic inches, allowing some area for water collection. 76 vs 65 quarts--still a decent size chest--and that way one could also use one of the boxes as a "Dry box" with the lid on the liner. Biggest cost would be the epoxy and glass cloth. Once could even put mold release on the box (putting a blank in the end) and laminate an outer shell of polyester and mat/cloth--probably even do two shells for each side since they are tapered, and then pour foam between the two shells....but the foam is easier to experiment with.

[Mr. Fisherman]

Insulating the box is good but I think you may be able to curb the problem a bit by processing the Tuna and other fish the way we do.
We immediately bleed out the Tuna when it first comes aboard... as soon as there is not a steady stream we will gut and gill the fish being careful to scrape both sides to remove the kidneys and heart. We then rinse the fish and put it in a slurry of ice and salt water. We use various devices for this but a 30 gallon trash can works great and allows you to put more than one fish in the quench tank. After 15 to 30 minutes in the quench tank we pack the fish with ice in a cooler. Walla, guts and gills gone along with all that thermal mass. The quench tank reduces the fishes core temperature very quickly. This method uses far less ice than any way I have tried yet.
I just got a large insulated fish bag after helping to plug the boat of a friend that had one. I love them and plan to buy another.
This would allow you to fill the soft bag(s) with ice packed Tuna and your plugged macerator pumps will be a thing of the past, your ice consumption will drastically reduce and the quality of fish will be the best you have ever tried, if not send it to me and I will eat my words.

I use a commercial half tote in my boat and the insulated bag will be a very welcome addition.

I hope this helps.

[Discovery]

JoeC and Thataway,

I agree with your feelings on the fish boxes. Our's have been a constant source of aggravation. We use them for storage boxes, (folding chairs, dingy pump, etc.) things best kept dry. Originally the macerator pump outlets were at the water line, which allowed water back in, and resulted in fish boxes full of water. The factory changed the outlet location (raised them 10" or so) but the boxes still get water in them from the deck scuppers backflushing onto the deck. The fish box lid sealing gasket is a joke. I have drilled larger drain holes in the lid lip depression, to allow faster draining into the bilge, but to on avail. The other problem occurs on launching and loading, when the angle of the boat puts the thru hulls, (both deck suppers and fish box outlets) temporarily underwater. I have thought some of having the deck scuppers filled in. The self bailing deck is of no value if the water goes in as easily as it goes out. Pulling prawn traps, or crab pots, or landing a fish, anytime that two or three people stand in the rear corner. causes water to flood back in the scuppers. Make the deck like it is on the CD22's, then make a pocket in the rear corners with a high volume bilge pump to keep the deck dry of the occasional splashes and spills.

Overall we really like the TC255. It is a great cruising and all around boat. We just returned from 8 days on Lake Powell, and had a wonderful trip. Caught a lot of fish and had super weather. Days in the 80's and nights in the 60's, and not a cloud all week. Went 60 miles uplake from Bullfrog, to almost total seclusion.

[thataway]

Mr Fisherman--I had forgotten about the tuna bags. They are used regularly in the Gulf. I'll have to see if any are a good fit. We always gut and bleed out our fish immediately. Not sure if I want another trash can on the deck--we had hoped to get away from that sort of thing--but it is a great idea!

We have not had a problem with back flow into the boxes--but we have a loop in both the bilge and macerator pump at lest 14" above the water line. You could still put in a direct sump pump from the deck with a flush fitting in the aft deck next to to the scupper, and sump pump (like a shower sump pump--maybe with a larger pump in the bilge. We don't have drains into the bilge--but I have been thinking about doing that. We are getting bilge water from some place when it rains, and I have not figured out where yet. If it stops now that we have a full camper back, that will give some clue.

Regards,

[Mr. Fisherman]

Another option for the trash can would be an engine flush bag. I have one of these and wish I had discovered them a long long time ago. I love it.
In addition to using it to flush the engines or tune up the motors I have used mine as an improntu live bait tank and have considered using it for a slush bag, in fact it will make the next Tuna trip to serve in that capacity. The nice thing about using it for a live bait tank or slurry tank is that when you are done with it it rolls up and takes up very little space.

[Best Day]

JoeC, Thataway and Discovery,

Take a look at Canyon Fish Bags. They make custom sizes and may be able to make custom size bags that fit into your fish boxes. The bags have drains that you may be able to connect to your fish box drains. These bags are supposed to work very well. If you guys order together you may be able to get a better price.

Bill

[thataway]

Thanks,
They have a 30" x 50 inches bag, which might work--cost about $199.