1984 22-Foot Classic V-berth Tank

therrick · Guest

I've been reviewing the situation below the V-berth on my older boat and have found old gas at the hull around the aluminum tank that has wicked up into the flotation foam. My initial thought - before a detailed inspection - is that one or more of the filler, vent, or supply hoses are hosed and leaking. I've pumped quite a bit of old (12 years?) gas out of the tank and would like to clean it.

(8/22 - Fuel line was cracked and leaking)

Having removed the foam around the tank I find that it seems to be glued/epoxied/glassed to the hull in addition to the mounting screws and bolts. Has anyone else removed their Classic tank? I'd like to know what I'm getting into before I end up delaminating the inside of the hull. It may be that the best course is to leave the tank in place and simply rinse and pump it until I'm satisfied it's clean. But, I do have a hankering to know how it was installed and what it would take to remove it.

Thanks,

Tom

rogerbum · Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:49 pm Post subject:

Sounds like a question for Red Fox Greg. Greg??? Yoo hoo

Anita Marie · Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 11:23 pm Post subject:

Tom, if you are saying that there is a fuel tank in the void below the V-berth this is not a factory install. Someone must have installed this tank at a later date. Not sure that having fuel under the V-berth is such a great idea. The tanks that came with the boat were portable metal tanks that went under the transom. I would think you would want to get it out. You might want to take some pictures so we could get a better idea of what your dealing with.

Fred

therrick · Guest

The tank is glued to the hull with some kind of adhesive or maybe fiberglass resin. The flotation foam was added after the tank was installed. The framing for the V-berth relies on the tank for structure. I could be wrong, but it looks like an original bit of work to me unless the installer had removed all of the original foam and added new; but it doesn't look that way to me.

Working on figuring out how to post pics from my computer. It appears that they need to be posted somewhere on the Internet first and have a URL. I'll post when I know how.

Tom

TyBoo · Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 9:02 am Post subject:

I may be mistaken, but I don't think there was originally any flotation foam up there, and am pretty certain that the tank is not original.

I set up a photo album for you so you can share some pics. You'll see the link to it in the profile info to the left of your posts.

therrick · Guest

Here's the pics... ...I hope.

Tom

Pat Anderson · Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 9:23 am Post subject:

Lets just get some decent sized pix right here in this thread, those thumbs are too hard for us old guys to see...

therrick · Guest

Hey, fellow old guy. How did you adjust the size on the photos?

The larger size is more what I had in mind, Thanks.

Tom

therrick · Guest

Just trying another pic post.

Sea Wolf · Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:04 pm Post subject:

therrick-

If removing the tank becomes more trouble than it's reasonably worth, you might consider just pumping it dry, airing it out, and refilling it with foam instead of gas.

You'd have to 1) fill it with water for safety, then 2) cut a couple of holes in it, 3) drain the water, 4) air it out for a few days (or weeks), then 5) foam it in with two part foam.

The reason for two holes is, first, for full air input and exit for ventilation, then, second, to have two openings for the extra foam to escape as it expands as a safety factor, because the foam can distort or even break apart a closed space if it doesn't have an outlet.

Then you could foam in the rest of the bow tank, and seal it up for a reasonable amount of positive flotation, or simply use the space left as storage.

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On the other hand, if you rerally want to take it out, you need to fill it with a non- oxygen containing substance, like Halon, or better yet, a fire-smothering foam (DaveS can advise you on this), then cut it out with a pneumatic cut off tool (die grinder with cut-off disk and protective shround).

This will, however still leave the bottom intact. Basicaly, if it's really glassed in tight, it would be pretty hard to grind it down and out of the hull. The tank bottom might be better left alone from a structural point of view.

It all depends on how much you like "brain surgery" on a C-Dory! (Brain surgery down at the bottom of a hole, no less!

P.S.: Looking at your photos, you're not skittish on full-blown disassembly and renovation projects, and are ready for anything!

Good Luck and keep us posted!

Joe.

BrentB · Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:08 pm Post subject:

Convert it into a time capsule.

therrick · Guest

The only reason I was planning on removing it was to make it easier to clean for reuse as an auxiliary fuel tank. I plan on installing a larger tank under the engine well. The tank appears in good shape although I'll check for leaks with a dye. All the rubber hoses to and from the tank will be replaced.

I am planning on doing a modified Redfox-style storage refit under the berth. A water tank or encased bladder ahead of the fuel to keep it centered on the boat. Two long shallow lockers on either side of the fuel tank. And two large deep lockers on either side of the porta-potty.

Tom

Sea Wolf · Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 2:27 pm Post subject:

therrick-

Sounds like a major retrofit!

From reading your first post, I thought you wanted it permanently removed.

You might try simulating the total weight forward before you add all the modifications to see if the boat balance and performance are ok with the added weight.

Good Luck,

Joe.

thataway · Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 5:05 pm Post subject:

I certainly agree with the temporary trying weight in this part of the boat before permently putting in other tanks--or even using this one. One of the beauties of the 22 C Dory is that they are light weight. Putting several hundred pounds of fluids up foreward will affect the trim, and perhaps handling under some conditions (concern would be mostly down wave type of situation).

Although many manufactures foam in tanks, it is generally accepted that this is not a good way to do it. Water is trapped in the foam, and the tank corrodes on the bottom. The proper way to put in an aluminum tank: first clean and etch or prime it. Use two part epoxy stronchium chromate. The floor that the tank will rest on should be epoxy coated/sealed plywood. glue 2" wide strips of plastic to the bottom of the tank with 5200 and then glue these to the bed with more 5200. This seals the bottom of the tank, and allows any water which gets around the tank to drain. On the other hand, I believe that many of the 22's were built with this entire area foamed in--and there should be no water there (unless a leak, or from the anchor locker). Having closed cell foam as floatation is certainly a good safety feature. I was never tempted to try and open up the area under the V bunk--there was adequate storage (especially weight wise) elsewhere.

MikeMac · Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 6:05 pm Post subject: Amazing!

Tom,
From your images your boat looks to be a dead ringer for mine (which is also an 84 Classic), except for this tank business. The installation looks nicely done, but I don't think it's a factory job. I've never cut into the area below my berths but from knocking around both inside and out, and other discussions over the years, they were originally just a sealed void space.

Good luck on whatever path you follow!

Mike