Help for a sailor looking to convert?

[Vancouver25]

I've been lurking and lusting for a while now. I seem to revisit every time I go sailing and realize it's much more work than it used to be 20 years ago!
The not-so-short version is I have a nicely restored Pearson Triton 28' that I acquired thinking I would take it across oceans someday...which never happened, despite the boat being ready! Now, after a few recent setbacks to my health, I've come to accept that I'm not going to ever attempt something so ambitious.

So the dilemma is...do I keep the sailboat and just enjoy the day trips and a few annual trips to Catalina Island? Or would I get more use and enjoyment from a smaller powerboat?

I mostly single-hand, but occasionally my wife and dogs or a few friends will join. My biggest concern is that the 22 will seem too small since we do sometimes overnight. My neighbor says, "You have a 28 foot boat with an 8.5' beam on a 20 foot waterline! Nothing will feel smaller than that!" And he has a point, but I can stretch out in the cockpit or comfortably fit 4 adults in the open air, sleep 4 adults easily down below, and lounge on good sea berths! I also have a dedicated head with a 15 gallon tank, almost 50 gallons in fresh water, a fridge, and can even rig up a hammock using the mast and whisker pole! Admittedly, my galley is spartan to be sure with a one burner gimballed kerosene stove and limited counter space.

While I do enjoy when the motor turns off and we glide along silently (and the motion is easy), it takes us a long time to go anywhere! Especially upwind...where it took us 15 hours the last time to make Two Harbors from Dana Point (44 miles). With the motor I can go 5 knots at close to 10 mpg...but if I'm going to motor the whole way shouldn't I be on a C-Dory?

Sorry for the longwinded post...I'm hoping maybe something here resonates with somebody who's been down this road and can give me the perspective of hindsight.

So the advantage of the C-Dory would be...over to Catalina in a fraction of the time! This is pretty huge as it would enable me to go over for a weekend (or 3-day weekend) and have time to enjoy whereas right now I need at least 4 or 5 days to feel like it's worth the trip. I also might use it more for some relaxing days on the water since it'd be easier to handle than sailing.

Disadvantages are I've never pulled anything on a trailer or launched and I'm a little intimidated...but I do have a Tahoe that could easily pull a 22. It's also a lot of money if it turns out I made a mistake...plus I'd never replace my current sailboat with anything close to it for what I'd have to let it go for (I might even have to donate it since small "voyaging" boats are not the rage these days).

After all this, maybe someone on here has a 22 or 25 in So Cal that I could see in person? I wouldn't expect to go for a ride, but it might be helpful to get a feel for the interior size and feel to compare it to what we're used to. Also, just to see what the cockpit feels like and what it would be like to sit at anchor and look out at the world!

I know there's at least one 25 in Dana Point harbor I paddle by often but I've never seen the owner around. Even if you have one parked somewhere close by I'd love to take a close-up look before I put my boat for sale and commit to going over to the "dark side."

Thanks for reading!

[thataway]

Welcome aboard! Lots of "ex sailors" here.

The C Dory 25 which is at the end of the set of slips in Dana Point belongs to my son. It is a 1995 "Cruise Ship". These have a bit different interior than the current C Dory 25's. The hull, bunk, cabin size and cockpit are the same. It has the 150 Honda outboard, which many 25's have. The Cruise Ships have a considerably larger dinette, and larger head. The galley is narrower. There is no glass door, or windows in the aft cabin bulkhead. My son lives in San Clemente, so is down at the boat on a fairly regular basis. Either the 22 or 25 should qualify for the "String Line" at the Isthmus.

I spent 50 years of my life sailing out of Long Beach and have been to the Island hundreds of times--the first trip was on my father's 26' sailboat in 1946. I had my own boats in Alamitos Bay or Huntington Harbor, starting in 1962 thru 1992, with the exception of 4 years taking an ocean voyage from Calif. to Europe and back.

I can appreciate the long "sail", since my father's boat often took 5 or more hours, if no wind. I also owned an 18' deep V, Ray Hunt designed runabout which would make it from Huntington Harbor to the Isthmus in 45 minutes (when the water was calm) for fishing, diving and commuting. Sometimes we left my wife and children on the larger sailboat for a week or so during the summer and I would run back and forth in the runabout.

Send me a PM or email, and I will put you in touch with my son. (Or he may see this post.). There are also several 22's and Tom Cats in So Cal, plus Boris (Journy On) has his 25 in the Oceanside area. Boris was also a long distance sailor.

The Tahoe probably can pull the 25. I had a Yukon XL with the 5.3, 4x4 and HD tow package, along with rear air bags, which is similar to the Suburban, We pulled my son's 25 over the grapevine. We had to stop about 3/4 of the way up, since the ambient temperature was 110* and the transmission was pushing its heat limit. I would add an additional transmission cooler if towing with the Tahoe. Electric over hydraulic trailer brake system is desirable especially on the 25. My son has a Toyota 1/2 ton pickup. I towed my 25s many miles with the Yukon XL or a Ford (3/4 ton) 7.3L Diesel Excursion. More recently I towed with a Ford F250 Super Duty, 4x4 6.7 L diesel and that was the best tow vehicle of the lot.

Launch and retrieve is fairly easy with all of the c Dorys. There is a preferred Load Rite trailer for the 25's. I prefer a tandem axle trailer over the single axle for the 22. The 22's come in at about 4500#, and the 25's somewhere in the 7,000 to 8,200 lbs (depends on trailer, how much fuel, and gear is aboard.

You are not going to get the "sleeping space" you have in the 28. I owned a Columbia 29 Defender for a number of years, which would "sleep 6" Shortly after my children were born, we moved up to a Coronado 35, with considerably more room, even though it also "slept 6". The only boat we had which was comfortable with 6 to 8 was a 62' LOA Garden designed Ketch. That or a Cal Cruising 46 (our last sailboat), would cruise easily under power at 8 knots. The Defender was a 5 knot cruise speed, and the Coronado was a 6 knot cruise under power boat.

[Foggy]

I made the sail/power boat conversion. It took several painful years; maybe a
decade. At one time I owned both a powerboat and a sailboat, neither puny in
size. Both suffered along with me. This pushed me to decision time. I went
all power and rapidly felt better.

It took about 2 weeks after the decision was made.

I've heard a lot about "wider is better' but on water length is ride.

So, the best advice I have is to go as big in boat size as your pockets are deep.
Save yourself "two to four footitis" every couple years which is one of the fastest
ways I know to drain your pockets.

But then, it's also said recreational dollars aren't real dollars so, in the end, it's
your call.

Aye.

[JamesTXSD]

Dr Bob, as always, is right on - plenty of former sailors here who made the move to a C-Dory. We went from a Corsair Trimaran F27 (could sleep 5) to a C-Dory 25. We felt like we had more room in the C-Dory, PLUS the fact that we had a great view from anywhere in the cabin (other than in the V-berth).

Like you, I was concerned that we would miss that comfortable cockpit, not to mention being able to lounge out on the nets of the trimaran. You can set up whatever comfortable camp-type chair you like in the cockpit of the C-Dory. You do lose the storage that most sailboats have in the cockpit. What I quickly discovered that was the main benefit of cruising in the C-Dory: that enclosed helm... you can be out all day and not feel fried or wind-blown at the end of the day.

The first few days with the C-Dory were an example of your concern: "Did we make the right decision with this boat? It is SO different from a sailboat!" Yes, it is different - the ride is different, the way the boat reacts to the waves/wind is different, the ride at anchor is different. It didn't take long to appreciate those differences.

For full disclosure, we kept a small sailboat, a Com-Pac SunCat, for the first few years we had the C-Dory. It didn't get much use and I sold it with no regrets.

Your concern about trailering/launching/retrieving will soon turn to unbridled joy - the trailer is the best accessory for the C-Dory: you can haul it anywhere, launch, and be out exploring new waters. Trailering is a skill, and one that comes easy with practice. Launching one of these boats is as easy as putting in a small fishing boat, thanks to the relatively flat bottom. Oh, and that flat(ish) bottom will give you a good ride at anchor - the boat will "sail" (arc back and forth) more than a sailboat - you can adjust that with your anchoring technique. But, there is significantly less heeling as you move from one side of the boat to the other.

While you can fire up the motor in a sailboat and head directly into the wind, you are going to be limited pretty much to hull speed. With the C-Dory, you can go fast or you can run at displacement speed - your choice. If you want to get somewhere faster, you push the throttle forward. Not on a schedule? Pull the throttle back and enjoy the view and quieter ride.

I came to call our C-Dory: a powercruiser with a sailing sensibility.

On that rare day where the wind and waves were "just right," I would think longingly of sailing... then my wife would remind me that those days were not the norm with the sailboats we had. And if you are slogging to weather, it sure is nice to do it from that enclosed helm in the C-Dory.

Good luck with the decisions.
Jim B.

[ssobol]

If you mostly single hand, a 22 will be plenty big enough. So it depends on how often you'll have company and how big your dogs are. I've cruised with 6 people on my 22 (but no overnights). As couple, I've cruised on my 22 for up to 3.5 weeks. The sleeping accommodation on the 22 is perfectly fine and the berth on the 25 is not that much bigger than the 22.

I expect that trailering is easier with a 22 than a 25 (but I've never towed a 25). But the trailer will allow you to go a lot more places with your boat than you ever could with a sailboat. Plus you can use the boat as a camper while enroute.

Biggest comfort difference with the 25 over the 22 is the head. The 22 has a porta-potti. The porta-potti is certainly easier to deal with that a built in head (IMO), but you still have to deal with it.

[Dora~Jean]

I second Dr Bob's and others' information. Here's a little of my story. I too came from a sailboat, F-31 Corsair trimaran. Actually I've had 7 sailboats and 7 powerboats, all trailerable and all ocean capable (some were questionable on that, my younger years were a little bolder). I think every other boat was the opposite, sail then power. I remember going out on some windless days in the sailboat and thinking if only I had a powerboat. Then on some choppy, breezy days, if only I had a sailboat.

My favorite sailboat was my F-31. It was fast and stable. I actually trailered it to Miami (3,000 miles from SoCal) and spent 6 weeks in the Bahamas and weathered a tropical depression in early June, that I don't want to ever repeat, thank you very much.

My favorite powerboat is my current 2003 CD25 I've owned since new. After my first trip to Catalina, I remember feeling so refreshed when I got home. I had so much more energy. Sailing doesn't require that much energy in itself (except I had to setup and teardown the rig - with help). Like Jim said, it's mostly just being out in weather, hot or cold, rainy or windy, or all of the above during a day's sail that takes it out of you.

My deepest love on the water is still sailing. But I've experienced life-threatening fatigue a few times on sailboats, where you just don't have the energy to care about anything anymore. Never happened in a powerboat - for me. Also, on the high performance trimaran, I always felt I was the only one who could handle the boat properly and safely when the wind or waves suddenly piped up. That's why I sold it and bought my C-Dory. You've probably heard that on a sailboat, it's the trip that counts, in a powerboat, it's the destination. A combo of the two would seem ideal, but a powersailor is probably not going to be a good powerboat nor a good sailboat.

I can't give too many details on the differences between a CD22 and a CD25. I've only owned my 25. We have a large extended family, so the 25 has worked out well for us. As soon as we decide we're going boating, we have 6-7 ready to go (including us). I was very nervous at first to make sure everyone has a seat (and appropriate life jacket). And a place to sleep. The enclosed head is a BIG blessing in mixed company, even for getting into and out of your bathing suits. I relaxed later after I found that with a little cooperation, and coziness, it works fine and everybody enjoys the trip. I've single-handled my 25 a few times, not a huge deal unless there's a lot of wind while trying to pick up a mooring or docking. I have a windless, so anchoring in the wind isn't a big deal. The 25 will consume more gas than a 22, I have twin 80's on mine, perfect for my loads, I average 2.75 nm/gal. The 22's I believe do 25-50% better, but not what I'd call a huge difference in overall ownership cost. 25's have a 100 gal tank which gives them a slight edge on range.

[Vancouver25]

Thank you everyone for the detailed and thoughtful insights. It's reassuring to know that I might be looking in the right direction and many of your anecdotes are helping me think this through.

A few early responses had me thinking a 22 might be enough since it's mostly me and the wife (sometimes) and our two 60 lb. dogs. I like the idea of a 22 because it's cheaper to purchase, probably works better with my Tahoe, and easier to handle both on and off the trailer and even in the water if alone. If the berth is almost the same and the working cockpit close in size then maybe all the extra costs of a 25 aren't worth it for my intended use?

But then others chimed in and have me second guessing...maybe I (I mean, my wife), would really appreciate the head of the 25 long term? Maybe the Tahoe isn't ideal but for the limited amount of land travel I see us doing (at least for the foreseeable future) it's enough? Maybe 100 gallons of fuel might be good if we were to ever trailer somewhere that needed that kind of range?

I feel like these are all beginner questions that I need to sort out--probably with some more sifting through threads on this great site. I'm sure the old timers here are rolling their eyes...sorry guys...but I do appreciate the welcome and your heartfelt responses.

If anyone knows where I can look at a 22 or 25 up close, I think that might answer a lot of questions. As you know, it's a little hard to come by a clean and well-sorted C-Dory in either size so I'm probably looking at a sight unseen, long-distance purchase. I think I should at least see a sister ship before I fully commit.

[ssobol]

On thing to consider with dogs is that C-Dorys are not made with cockpit doors or wide gunwale walkways. They also can sit pretty low compared to other boats when tied to fixed docks. To get your dogs on and off you are likely to have to lift them in to and out of the boat.

Plenty of people take their dogs on C-Dorys, but this is just a heads up.

[thataway]

On the subject of dogs: Marie and I have boated with dogs for over 45 years. We have taken a Lab across the Atlantic Ocean. We did extensive cruising with two 60# labs aboard, where the dogs could not go on land for several months at a time (Cal 46 in Central America where there was a high risk of a certain dog disease.). We have also boated in both a 22 and 25 with two of 45 to 50 # dogs aboard--Border Collie and Chow Shepard mix. We had zero issue with any of the dogs on the 22;s. We usually cruised with dunnage boxes in the cockpit which brought the level very close to the gunnels. The last 12 years we have only owned miniature poodles. They are non shedders-really important in boats! The miniature poodle is a water dog--not quite the same class as a lab, but they love water and are good swimmers. Also a 15# dog is a lot easier for old arms to lift than a 60# dog at a certain point--and when necessary. Usually any of the dogs in the c Dory, even going from the inflatable to the cockpit just needed a boost--not a full lift. There are floating gangways--but we finally came to the conclusion that they are more trouble than they are worth.

[hardee]

Sailor all my life, Found a C-Dory and it took me 4 years to sell the sail boat. Not a bad decision, and no regrets. C-Dory for 15 years now.

Harvey
SleepyC

[Vancouver25]

The more I consider my personal (and practical) usage...the C-Dory is checking a lot of boxes! Of course, it seems many others are coming to the same realization as it appears a used C-Dory in good condition at a fair price is almost unheard of in SoCal. I should probably start the selling process on my sailboat but if I can't find a suitable C-Dory to replace it then I run into other issues (losing my slip, for example). I also don't really have a place for the trailer and want to store it in the water...which sort of negates one of the C-Dory's main advantages. Again, don't quite have this figured out yet but thanks for the insights.

[thataway]

My son stores his trailer up the Valley from Oceanside, much cheaper than the Dana Point area. . For many service needs a trailer is almost essential. Also the real advantage of the C Dory is to explore areas other than your immediate area. We had explored most of the coast of N. America, from Icy Straights AK, to the Maine Canadian Border. The C Dory opened up inland lakes, and the extensive river system of the US. Still the boats are suitable for trips to Mexico, the Bahamas, and trips into Northern Canada, including the Arctic waters.

If you decide you want to do the Inland Passage to AK, (highly recommended), a 5 day road trip will bring you to Prince Rupert a great jumping off place for SE Alaska. In comparison my Cal 46 took 11 days, to get to the Straits of San Juan de Luca. (that is delivery service type of time, and running 24hours many days.

[flagold]

I would second Thataway's comment on trailering. Our 22 went from Hernando Beach Florida to Washington State multiple times. While you might not think of it now, after purchase you'll be thinking of all the places it will allow you to go - water or not. We've been camped out in desert and mountain conditions perfectly comfortable while others were freezing in tents at night.

No other boat is as capable no matter the length.

[colbysmith]

I trailer almost 10,000 miles a year, so you can figure out where I stand on the issue. Seriously though, if you have the time, there are so many great places that you can take these boats. Trailers are not cheap, but then they open up so many other possibilities for your boat. Not to mention that a trailer gives you something to store your boat on in the off season, or if you need to get it out of the water for some reason. And you can "boaterhome" while traveling between bodies of water. Colby