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hammerhead
Joined: 03 Aug 2005
Posts: 115
City/Region: Sacramento
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Hammerhead
Photos: Hammerhead
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 Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 10:09 am Post subject: Kicker |
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Just bought the Amigo from Rick and with the twin Honda 40's im wondering if I should put the kicker on the bow 
Should be picking her up in 1 or 2 weeks, im so excited, I kicked the wife outa bed for not wearin a life jacket. 
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The New Hammerhead is looking good, ready for fishing and diving, pictures coming soon  |
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DaveS
Joined: 01 Nov 2003
Posts: 3204
City/Region: Arlington
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2004
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sea Shift
Photos: Sea Shift
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:34 am Post subject: Re: Kicker |
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| hammerhead wrote: |
Should be picking her up in 1 or 2 weeks, im so excited, I kicked the wife outa bed for not wearin a life jacket. |
Congratulations Hammerhead, you purchased a fine boat. I'm thinkin' you're gonna fit right in here with the above sense of humor, however be careful that the wife doesn't kick you outa boat if you don't wear a life jacket..... 
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Dave S.
"Sea Shift"
C-Brat #16 |
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Da Nag
Joined: 24 Oct 2003
Posts: 2832
City/Region: Port Angeles
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1995
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruise Ship
Vessel Name: Wilbur
Photos: Da Boats
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:47 am Post subject: |
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| Anna Leigh wrote: | | How come when a long website address is put into the messege the whole message stretches out to forever?? |
The page text won't wrap long text, there needs to be a space - when I see the long links like above, I fix them.
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 Will, C-Brat Nerd |
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Valkyrie
Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Posts: 1028
City/Region: Loudonville
State or Province: OH
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Valkyrie II
Photos: Valkyrie
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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I'm glad to see the kicker being brought up as a safety issue. For many years when I broached the idea of a kicker with sales types, the standard response was, "You don't need one. That's what a cell phone, VHF, towing insurance is for." (Pick one of the above)
There have been four incidents in my past where I had to dock or get myself out of trouble under sail due to engine failure. As far as I am concerned, the kicker has replaced my mast and sails.
Personally, I like to feel that I can handle most situations I encounter by myself. I'm not adverse to asking for help from the police, fire or CG, but they are not always there when they are needed. They may be the first responders, but I'm the first line of defense/help until they can arrive.
That's also why I've always maxxed out on safety gear and carry one of those big parachute-style sea anchors for really heavy weather.
Sure, I hope that I never need that stuff, but feel more confident and prepared for what may come my way.
By the way, I have the Honda 90 and Classic 8 for propulsion on the transom of our '05 22. The 8 does clear the Bennett trim tabs, but the new ones may be different dimensions from older models. The 8 is through-bolted to the transom.
Is the extra engine really needed? Ask El and Bill. Bill told me that their second 40 saved them 2 or 3 times.
Nick
"Valkyrie" |
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Les Lampman
Dealer
Joined: 30 Oct 2003
Posts: 779
City/Region: Whidbey Island
State or Province: WA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 2:26 pm Post subject: Re: I really love my wife |
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| starcrafttom wrote: | | So heres the question. What do I want. I want ele. start and a charging system so my down riggers dont drain the batteirs. Honda would match the 90 but the nissian is 40 lbs lighter. What size? is a 4 or 5 enough or do I really need a 9.9.? do I mount on a bracket or just to the transom? I understand that some motors mounted to the transom drag in the up position, is this true? and how bad? I have a really heavy duty mount in the garage so thats a option. If I use a mount then I have to use a ez-steer?They are up to $250 now. This will give me a motor for use on my drift boat come duck season. So what are the thoughts of the pub? |
Tom...
Here's my take on it...I'd say that an 8hp is about as low as you want to go with any expectation of the engine pushing the boat against wind or waves. Most (but not all) 8hp four strokes are built on the same block as 9.8 or 9.9 hp engine from that mfg. What this means is that at low to mid range trhottle settings there isn't much difference in performance between the two engines (based on the same block). The 9.8/9.9 starts to make its extra horsepower in the upper rpm range. The higher hp engine will give you more reserve horsepower so if you're driving into a head sea or into the wind there's a bit more on tap.
The only way the Nissan is 40# lighter than a Honda is if you're comparing the 4/5/6 Nissan (which is also Tohatsu and Mercury) at around 57 # to a Honda BF8/BF9.9 at 105# or so. The Nissan 8/9.8 is the high 80# range (long shaft/electric start).
Honda has two 8hp models; the BF8A Classic and the newer BF8D, which is also available as a BF9.9D. The BF8A Classic is about 78# and does not have electric start and/or power tilt available. The BF8/9.9D is available with electric start and power tilt. The long shaft electric start model is around 105#; the nice thing about these Honda's is that they do not remove the rope start when they add electric start. There's also a power thrust prop available for these engines; it's a 4-bladed 10" diameter prop with symetrical 6 1/2" pitch blades (for good authority in reverse).
The Honda has a larger displacement than the Yamaha T8 (222cc versus 197cc) and the electric start Honda has a 12-amp alternator versus the 6-amp alternator on the Yamaha. The Yamaha is geared lower at 2.92 versus Honda's 2.33. They're both great motors; it's a little difficult to tell which provides more thrust without some real world numbers (which don't seem to be available). I will say that we've haven't needed the high-thrust props on the BF9.9 engines on something like the CD22 or the Arima Sea Ranger 21; the stock prop works well.
I'm not "pitching" the Honda here; I'd happily live with either engine (Honda BF9.9 or Yamaha 'T8') on the stern of my own boat.
I also really like the Nissan 9.8; it's light, it's inexpensive (relatively), it's well proven, and it retains the rope start in the electric start version. It has a 6-amp alternator. It's black so it seems to work well with other brands and colors of motors.
I'm not "pitching" the Nissan (Tohatsu/Mercury) either; it's just another good choice.
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Les
www.marinautboats.com |
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starcrafttom
Joined: 07 Nov 2003
Posts: 7932
City/Region: marysville
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1984
C-Dory Model: 27 Cruiser
Vessel Name: to be decided later
Photos: Susan E
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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sorry les. the nissan is 27 lbs lighter in the 9.8 . You should see the way I lie about fish. What is the differance between the nissian and the Tohatsu other then about $200 from what i have seen while shopping?
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Thomas J Elliott
http://tomsfishinggear.blogspot.com/ |
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Valkyrie
Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Posts: 1028
City/Region: Loudonville
State or Province: OH
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Valkyrie II
Photos: Valkyrie
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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Les,
Would you recommend the 10" power thrust prop ove r the standard prop on a BF8A on a 22 for the intended use of trolling and an emergency back- up in case the main engine would go down?
Nick
"Valkyrie" |
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Les Lampman
Dealer
Joined: 30 Oct 2003
Posts: 779
City/Region: Whidbey Island
State or Province: WA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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| starcrafttom wrote: | | sorry les. the nissan is 27 lbs lighter in the 9.8 . You should see the way I lie about fish. What is the differance between the nissian and the Tohatsu other then about $200 from what i have seen while shopping? |
Same engine...different decal. "Nissan" is a marketing name that Tohatsu uses in North America (intially 'cause us-ins' didn't know what a Tohatsu was).
And I might add if you stick to apples and apples the wieght difference is about 20 pounds; around 87 pounds or so for the NSF9.8 and 107# for the BF9.9D (both electric start and long shaft).
Last edited by Les Lampman on Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:24 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Les Lampman
Dealer
Joined: 30 Oct 2003
Posts: 779
City/Region: Whidbey Island
State or Province: WA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Valkyrie wrote: | Les,
Would you recommend the 10" power thrust prop ove r the standard prop on a BF8A on a 22 for the intended use of trolling and an emergency back- up in case the main engine would go down?
Nick
"Valkyrie" |
Not if you're happy with what the stock prop gives you.
The Power Thrust prop will allow a much slower troll speed. It will also give you more response around a dock. It will also limit the speed you can attain at "cruise" since a high thrust engine is essentially "stuck" in first gear (in other words; it's like driving an old 3-on-the-tree pickup with a 4.11 rear-end down the freeway! Lotsa rpm and not so much speed). So really it's about balance and how you use the boat. In most circumstances the standard prop works just fine since the CD22 is easily driven and is light. If you do need to come home on the kicker you'll be able to hold a higher speed at a lower rpm than with a high thrust engine and/or Power Thrust prop. |
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CAVU
Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 665
City/Region: Spokane
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2002
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: CAVU
Photos: CAVU
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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Sark,
I noticed you said you would go with the EZ Steer for connecting your main to the kicker. On my last boat I had an EZ Steer setup on a 90 Honda to an 8 Honda classic on a bracket. It worked fine for me 90% of the time, but sometimes when I was trolling with a high power setting the kicker would be generating so much thrust that when I tried to turn it would collapse the rod. The length of the rod is controlled by spring loaded detents and I really had a hard time getting it set to work at high power settings yet still collapse or extend like it was supposed to. I guess this wouldn't make much sense unless you have used one. At any rate I much prefer the type of steering connector that fits in the front of the engine where it is easy to get to. With a bracket mounted kicker it may require a little creative bending of the rod to get proper clearance but it is well worth it seems to me. I think especially with a kicker you plan to use primarily as a get home motor, i.e. running it at higher power settings, the EZ Steer may be problematic.
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Ken Trease
22 CD Cruiser, CAVU
Twin 40HP Hondas |
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Cutty Sark
Joined: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 462
City/Region: Kenmore, Sammamish Slough
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1989
C-Dory Model: 16 Angler
Vessel Name: TBD
Photos: Cutty Sark
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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Cavu-
I understand what you are saying about it slipping. Although I never experienced that on my previous one, but I also only had a 6 hp on it. I will ask around, as I know alot of guys in my fishing club use them. Including two of my really good freinds whose uncle works for ez steer. Those two had to come back to port all the way from umatilla reef on their kicker and I don't recall them having a problem, and I know they were running top speed since it's a long way. I'm sure the cabelas one is is good too, I just trust the ez steer, because of my last experience with them. I will make sure it works right before laying down the dough for a new one. And I will take a closer look at the other ones that hook up in the front, they are definitly easier to get to on the water. Thanks for the tip.
Sark |
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oldgrowth
Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 2196
City/Region: Rochester
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2002
C-Dory Model: 16 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Voyager
Photos: C-Voyager
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| Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:43 am Post subject: |
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starcrafttom, any of the major outboard engines will give you good service. But if you do a lot of fishing and use your downriggers a lot, you should look for the outboard engine with the most charging capacity. I know some of the outboards have weak charging systems.
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Dave  |
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