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Center Window Replacement on CD-22

 
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colbysmith



Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Posts: 2483
City/Region: Madison
State or Province: WI
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Midnight Flyer
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 5:28 pm    Post subject: Center Window Replacement on CD-22 Reply with quote

This isn't really about replacing the center window, but rather removing and reinstalling to reseal. The short version is, it was a bear to get out. But after much prying and prodding, I did get it removed, with very little damage. And that was mostly bending the lip of the window frame slightly in a few places! I started this project as I was getting some water leaking in while towing the boat (on it's trailer) in heavy rain fall. I suspect the sealing material had shrunk up or cracked in a few places, just enough to allow heavy water to trickle in.

I am cleaning everything up well, and hope to reinstall the window & frame in the next day or two. What I want to know is if there is any reason why I couldn't use Butyl Rubber to reinstall the window & frame? Seems it would provide the sealing and waterproof properties necessary, while still allowing an easier time to remove in the future if necessary. Colby
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 16496
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Butyl rubber is fine as long as you get the good marine grade, and can always keep the flange tight. It works only when it is in compression and a full seal around the rim, with about the same spacing (within 1/16").

The problem I have seen with the Butyl rubber sealant, is that each time I have removed windows and other screwed on fittings, there was dirt behind the butyl sealant strip--indicating that some dust and water had worked its way into the joint.

I took the rim out of several windows looking for leaks--and found that whatever sealant was on my 2006 boat--it was very strong--and very adherent. (It seems you found the same). What I did note on the side windows was that there were somewhat irregular gaps, which were filled with this sealant.

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Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
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colbysmith



Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Posts: 2483
City/Region: Madison
State or Province: WI
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Midnight Flyer
Photos: Midnight Flyer
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking of gaps, once I got everything cleaned up, I put the window back in place, mostly just to check fit around the part of the outer rim that I had bent slightly. Interesting to note in the top starboard corner, there was daylight. IOW, the manufacturer didn't do such a great job cutting out the window space. Now the space at the daylight was very small once I pushed the window up towards that corner...but still....maybe 1/16" gap. This area also had a lot of sealant that had to be cleaned off the window frame.
The other thing I need to do now, is decide if I want to use rivets to reinstall the window (held in by that compression frame behind it), or buy some new, next size larger screws. Several of the screws were stripped out, so offer little holding power. I thought about putting some nuts behind and going with machine screws, but then the project becomes how to hold the nuts behind while installing the screws. I suspect just going with larger diameter screws would be the best way to go. Colby
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Robert H. Wilkinson



Joined: 26 Jan 2011
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City/Region: Port Ryerse
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Colby, I have used automotive windshield type urethane to set marine windshields. Cleaned glass and frame, dry fit glass, then set glass into a bead of urethane. With a little pressure and a large enough bead it will take care of any discrepancies(uneven gaps). After that set I taped off the frame and glass and applied another neatly tooled bead around the glass. Adhesion is excellent, waterproof, will not shrink and it turns your entire windshield frame into a structurally stable member.

If you ever need to remove it you will have to get a glass guy to use their special saw - or if you have a partner inside the boat you can use piano wire and 2 pair of vice grips.

Wear gloves as the urethane is messy. You can buy urethane cleaner that is handy and easier on the skin than solvents. Made by Essex - part # U421.

Good luck,
Rob

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colbysmith



Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Posts: 2483
City/Region: Madison
State or Province: WI
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Midnight Flyer
Photos: Midnight Flyer
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Rob, that makes perfect sense. However.....I'll keep that info for next time. Just spent the last part of the evening before turning on my computer, remounting the window & frame with the Butyl Rubber. Just to be clear I wasn't just mounting the glass into the frame, but rather then entire unit into the fiberglass. But I think that's what you meant also. Everything went a little smoother than I expected. Now just keeping my fingers crossed that the resealing addresses the problem of the small leak. And that it all sets up well. The thing about the frame, is that the compression ring does not completely "compress" tightly. But rather allows a very thin bead of caulk to seal the windshield. (IE, when the frame was out, I put the compression ring on it, and saw that the space between it and the window frame was slightly more than the thickness of the fiberglass it all sets in.) I won't be using the boat for another week, so the Butyl Rubber will have time to set up and become more "adhesive" with the window and fiberglass. If I have any problems, I'll pull the window out and try to stuff you mention. Colby
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pcg



Joined: 31 Aug 2018
Posts: 82
City/Region: Sherwood
State or Province: OR
C-Dory Year: 1999
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Center Window Replacement on CD-22 Reply with quote

colbysmith wrote:
...the center window, but rather removing and reinstalling to reseal. The short version is, it was a bear to get out. But after much prying and prodding, I did get it removed, with very little damage. And that was mostly bending the lip of the window frame slightly in a few places! .

If anyone has any tips on removing windows I'm all ears. I want to replace the gasket material in all of my windows next year and tried taking one out this afternoon so I could determine what gaskets will be needed and cost, etc.

Yes, it's a bear to get out. I was hoping that just removing the interior screws would allow the glass and gasket to pop out. No such luck. It's glued in there with something that doesn't want to let go. I've been using a hammer and metal-blade putty knife to go around behind the frame to try to break the seal without bending anything. So far I haven't bent anything, but I'm not even close to breaking the window free. It feels like even if I break the seal that's immediately behind the outside rim, there's still glue "inside" of that, that is inaccessible, that is keeping the frame from pulling free.

Any suggestions on how to proceed?

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colbysmith



Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Posts: 2483
City/Region: Madison
State or Province: WI
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Midnight Flyer
Photos: Midnight Flyer
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul, that's pretty much what I faced getting my center forward window/hatch out. In fact, I did bend it some, but thankfully was able to straighten it out well enuf that unless one looks close, don't notice. And it still operates and seals well. My leak ended up being some air pockets in the manufacturers seal job. In retrospect, watching the car window guys removing car windows, they use like a small string saw to cut the sealant between the window and frame. I wonder if that would have worked better to get the window hatch out. Colby
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pcg



Joined: 31 Aug 2018
Posts: 82
City/Region: Sherwood
State or Province: OR
C-Dory Year: 1999
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, this turned out well. I discovered that you don't have to remove the window to replace the exterior gasket. I assumed the gasket captured the edge of the window on both sides, but I was wrong. The window is sealed in with something that is almost impossible to remove, which I assume is butyl rubber. See above comments. The gasket on the outside of the window, however, is not glued in, and is not held in place by the edge of the window. All you have to do is grab it and pull it out. Some of mine are working their own way out around the corners, so I just grabbed one at the corner where it was pulling out and gently, but firmly pulled it all the way out. I cleaned it and it looks almost like new. I haven't decided yet whether I will simply clean and replace the gaskets or replace with new.
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