Dry Suit vs. Wet Suit vs. Survival Suit

[colbysmith]

Thought I'd start a current thread on this subject. As I look at an Inside Passage trip in SE Alaska, or some possible boating on Canadian Lakes, or even colder month boating on our own Great Lakes, I'm thinking about the best article of clothing for survival in the water, or even cold water Kayaking. Initially I was thinking Survival Suit, otherwise known as a "Gumby" suit. However, with a little more research, I'm wondering if a "dry" suit would be more useful. Something that would work as both a "survival" suit and also a little more maneuverable for Kayaking or entering the water up to waist height while exiting / entering the beached boat. So, looking for recommendations and advice from those that have done some boating and kayaking in cold water one what has worked for you. Thanks. Colby

[AstoriaDave]

There are a lot of variables to consider.,

What is your budget? GoreTex full dry suits well made, with reinforcement in areas of high wear, run about a kilobuck. Ones made from durable waterproof fabric, not breathable at all run about half that.

If you want more detail on those choices, a paddling forum may be a good place to post your query. Here is one, with a corps of BC paddlers, many very experienced. Also a polite crowd: http://www.westcoastpaddler.com/

A data point that may be useful: a dry suit by itself will prolong your survival time on cold water, 45 F for example, but realistically, you must wear thick layers of fleece if you want 8 hours of survival time. And most folks cannot tolerate that arrangement in air temps in the 60s, especially if they are active. The gumby suits are relatively quick to don, and require less added insulation underneath, two reasons for their use by commercial fishermen.

YMMV.

[colbysmith]

Thanks Dave. Guess money wise, I'd be looking for relatively inexpensive, but efficient. It's not something I'm going to use much. In reality, it's probably something I would wear while in Alaska or Canada on my Kayak, or possibly a few times a year if I get the Kayak out on the Great Lakes in colder weather. Other than that, probably just kept as survival gear if out on cold water during the slower times of the year. (i.e. no help available anytime real soon.) I've done a little more reading, and think it comes down to Dry suit vs. Survival suit. From that same reading, it almost sounds like the Dry Suit is going to be more practical as something to wear in times other than imminent sinking of the boat. I.E., more to stay dry and protect one in an accidental spill overboard. Colby

[Phil Barnes]

I have a Kokatat dry suit for sea kayaking. It has full stocking feet and is gasketed at the arms and neck. Dave is right that it provides very little insulation without warm layers underneath. It is water tight and I have spent time in the water practicing wet exits and re entries with the kayak. It takes some time to put on but that can be sped up with practice. Be sure you can work the heavy zipper yourself if you don't always have someone with you. Northwest River Supply (NRS) has their own brand as well as other brands. Each of the type of suits you mention is designed for a different purpose. For me, the dry suit provides the best all around multipurpose suit but will not do the same job as a survival suit in an extreme situation.

[AstoriaDave]

Colby, sounds like you have a very good fix on what will work for your needs. That kilobuck figure is more or less what Kokatat wants for one of its Goretex suits. Kokatat is pretty much the industry standard and has the best warranty, bar none. OTOH, as Phil says, NRS sells some top end suits for a lot less money that serve the WW crowd, and sea paddlers well, also. I have bought a lot of NRS branded gear, and found it to be very well made, in particular, their wet suits, usually their Farmer John/Farmer Bill models. Bill is a "broader" farmer than John.

If your needs run a span of water temps, a combination you might want to consider is a 3 mm Farmer John as the base protection, and a breathable dry top with latex wrist and neck gaskets. In warmer waters, the FJ is usually enough for sustained immersion and swimming. Then, if you shift to colder waters, add the dry top, with appropriate insulation underneath, which allows you to protect yourself as conditions warrant.

The latex gaskets have the added bonus that they eliminate windblown leakage from spray and rain, when you are cruising in sloppy rainy weather.

The FJ / DT combo is substantially cheaper, and the FJ also is much more durable than a dry suit.

[South of Heaven]

I've been researching different survival options myself, since next year I'll be doing several long distance coastal passages to NY and then on to the Chesapeake. I already have 4 inflatable PFD's and a SPOT messenger. My next buy is an EPIRB and a lifesling.

Colby: Do you have a dinghy or liferaft? Or are you counting your kayak as your survival float? I don't kayak so I'm buying a dinghy this season. I thought about buying a dedicated, enclosed liferaft but it seems more practical buying a dinghy and using it as my "life raft" in emergencies. However, I may be buying a SUP next year. I like the idea of an upper body workout and exploring simultaneously.

I like the idea of a "gumby" suit. Especially if you foul your prop or anchor in cold weather. I'll be watching this thread. Maybe Santa Claus will be making some late night purchases on dec 24th!!

[thataway]

Excellent advice above, and my comments may be dated. But I see you looking at different scenarios and there is no one answer--and perhaps the better question is what is best for the C Dory. That might be a life raft--since a raft is better than being in the water in a survival suit...but the chance of needing a life raft on the inland passage is minimal...

I am not a hard core kayaker, although I still have a Hobie inflatable i 9, and loaned out my Hobie Revolution 14. i had several inflatable kayaks, and the 16m foot wooden one I built.

My go to cold weather gear on deck was a Line 7, full one piece foul weather gear (New Zealand)--designed for high latitude sailing. This was a waterproof as one could find short of a dry suit--and I wore it crossing the North Atlantic in hurricane force winds (along with a face place, at times) Under this I had absorbing layers, then fleece and finally the foul weather gear. I have been warm in this in temperatures down to 12 deg F., with winds of 50 knots.

For in the water, I used a rash guard, 3 mm farmer john, with hood, then a 1/4' Wet suit with separate hood, gloves and booties over the farmer john. The longest I used this was about 5 hours working to get a prop off where I had gotten some epoxy onto the nut threads, and having to replace a shaft log. The water was in the high 40's to low 50's. Cold, but able to do hard work, using a hookah rig. I think we pumped some warm water into the suit part way thru as I recollect from the boat's hot water system.

We never had any use for this type of gear on any of our 5 trips on the inland passage, but it was available in the big boats. As for the C Dory, just layers of good fleece and two piece foul weather gear--We wore this in the dinghy even on the coldest of days taking the dogs ashore at least 3 x a day. i also did some "surfing" of salt water rapids, as well as ice bergs as they calved in the RIB. We had discussed getting survival suits, dry suits, etc and decided against these unless we were going to specifically be doing some diving in the cold water over prolonged time.

We considered our inflatable as our life raft, since it was always carried inflated. (We made a fitted cover for it, and specific ditch bag, with EPRIP etc)

Consider if you are going to be physically active, and if so, in what way--paddling vs peddling.....What will be most comfortable for the buck...

[tsturm]

[hardee]

Colby, I wrestled with this same issue, especially before I did my 3 month trip around the north end of Vancouver Island. The water temos in the PNW waters are 40 to 50 with the exception of Desolation Sound. Just crossing Juan de Fuca is at least 2 hours, and it can get iffy, and again, 45 degrees. I'm not saying it's perfect, but it works for me. In this order I have, and will use:
1. A PLB
2. a handheld VHF marine radio, attached to my PFD
3. an inflated dingy
4. an electronic flare (USCG approved)
5. I will be wearing fleece
And 6. Within 20 minutes, I should be talking to a USCG helo overhead and within sight.

I'm sure you already have the pros and cons of the three options you listed.. For me the PLB was the deal breaker on the suits since I was not planning on wearing a suit for diving or paddling. For pure coldwater survival, the true gumbie wins outm but you can't ware that for much besides floating in the water or a raft. But, you will be able to do that for several hours. Just keep your hh vhf handy.

Harvey
SleepyC

[Foggy]

In a previous life, I wrote a cold water shock article since I kayaked in northern
Michigan almost year round. It contains a section on suggested outer wear, at
that time, you might still consider, along with other information you may not
be aware of.

Good luck.

Aye.
PS: After writing this, I became more abbreviated.
__________________________________
COLD SHOCK - INFORMATION TO HELP KEEP PADDLERS SAFE
Martin Strand III March 22, 2006

The American Canoe Association (ACA) says, “The keys to managing any risk are knowledge and skill.” (1) The former is the purpose of this paper; to caution and inform, not frighten. Keep in mind, venturing out on the water to have fun or exercise is optional. Returning home is mandatory.

Before giving in to the temptation of going for that long awaited first, or subsequent, Spring paddle this year on a beautiful warm sunny 70* F day, consider the following, even if you remember to think about the cold water and know about hypothermia.

* In northern latitudes during March, April and May the highest percentage of deaths occur from people going out on dangerously cold water. (2)
* Immersion in cold water kills more paddlers than any other hazard in the sport. (3)
* Cold water itself is the single most serious threat to the survival of a paddler; the colder the water, the more likely cold shock may take you. (4)
* Cold shock kills and occurs long before hypothermia can set in. (5)
* The most common fatal error for paddlers is wearing clothing inappropriate for the cold. (6)

DEFINITIONS
COLD WATER has a number of definitions. In Alaska and British Columbia some sources say it is water below 77* F (25* C) (7) ( or it is water below 70* F (21* C) (9). Others report it is below 60* F (15* C) (1) (6) (10). USCG data shows about 3/4 of all canoe and kayak fatalities occurred in water < 65* F (18* C). (6) Still others call the temperature at which water can be considered cold is “variable”. (11) The important concept for paddlers to recognize is the colder the water, the higher the risks with inadvertent cold water immersion.

COLD SHOCK describes a series of rapid, linked, involuntary and detrimental physiological events in the inadequately protected human body characterized by immediate loss of breathing control, incapacitation and high risk of drowning or sudden death when suddenly immersed in cold water. Most of these immediate body responses are increasingly fatal as the water temperature decreases.

HYPOTHERMIA is a process where the body loses heat to the environment (water or air) faster than it can produce heat. This lowers the body’s core (brain, heart and lungs) temperature with accompanying decrease in bodily functions critical for survival in proportion to the extent of the lowered core temperature. Hypothermia takes time; the rate at which it occurs is proportional to the coldness of the water and the victim’s lack of insulation.

New thinking and research over the past decade has given birth to the concept of cold shock from sudden cold water immersion. This now explains why some experienced paddlers have been found dead in their overturned boats with their paddle still in their hands apparently without having made an attempt to wet exit or why observers of fatal cold water accidents have reported “He just tipped over and never resurfaced” or ”He was a good swimmer and so close to shore but it looked like he was just flailing around and then just went under.” And why, in the most blunt message, 9 elite Marines in March 1968, trained as water safety instructors but wearing only sweat suits paddling the Potomac River on water that was 36* F, after their war canoe capsized, none could swim 100 yards to shore. None survived. (12) This signals that a physically fit person, who is a good swimmer in warmer water, has no guarantee of survival from the adverse effects of cold water unless they have prepared to be immersed. (1)

It is now understood cold water kills by cold shock, drowning and advanced hypothermia. (13) Unless death occurs at any point, this occurs in three continuous phases: an initial cold shock response, a short term immersion and loss of performance phase and long term immersion with onset of hypothermia. (11) This writing addresses the first two since much has been written about hypothermia.

PHASE I: INITIAL COLD SHOCK RESPONSE (1 - 4 minutes)
First, the extremely unpleasant sensation of sudden cold water on skin triggers a cluster of breathing and heart responses; their severity depending on the extent and rate of skin cooling. This immediate neuromuscular reaction can cause a series of huge uncontrollable gasps for air called the INVOLUNTARY GASP REFLEX. If your head is underwater, you immediately drown. It also causes the INABILITY TO HOLD YOUR BREATH while under water from a preimmersion mean of 45 seconds to a mean of 9.5 seconds (one subject averaged less than a second) in 41* F water. (14) Imagine the implication for an unprepared kayaker trying to set up for a roll or wet exit!
However, if you manage to rapidly resurface, you may then have either your lungs full of cold water and can’t breath or you will immediately begin to HYPERVENTILATE, which usually follows the gasp reflex and is characterized by rapid and deep in/out breaths equal to 600-1000% greater than normal breathing (16). The triad of hyperventilation, involuntary gasping for air and LACK OF BREATHING CONTROL makes it easy to inhale water and drown. Also, as higher than normal blood levels of carbon dioxide are being quickly exhaled while gasping and hyperventilating, blood pH rises (respiratory alkalosis) which can cause cardiac arrhythmias, cramps from muscle tetanus, and cerebral vasoconstriction which starves the brain of oxygen resulting in disorientation, confusion and LOSS OF CONSCIOUSNESS.

Simultaneously, cold water on body skin causes constriction of capillaries under the skin. This INCREASES HEART RATE, CARDIAC OUTPUT AND BLOOD PRESSURE. These changes alone may be tolerated by a young healthy person but can be
dangerous for older paddlers with hypertension or other underlying heart disease. Other sequellae challenging the immersed paddler for survival in cold water include pain, claustrophobia and disorientation which causes PANIC. This stimulates release of adrenaline in the body (“fight or flight” response) which, normally, is our way of automatically protecting ourselves from harm. Paradoxically here however, it adds dramatically to existing cardiac changes from capillary constriction. These conditions, along with a huge volume of cold water in the lungs cooling the heart with accompanying blood chemistry changes, can precipitate CARDIAC ARREST and sudden death.

PHASE II: SHORT TERM IMMERSION AND LOSS OF PERFORMANCE (1/2 hour)
If cold shock is survived but immersion continues, body cooling proceeds rapidly. Called "cold incapacitation", in minutes this leads to decreased extremity neuromuscular activity and blood flow causing finger stiffness, poor coordination of motor activity and considerable loss of strength. (16) The loss of motor control makes it difficult, or impossible, to perform survival procedures like rolling, reentry, blowing your whistle and signaling for help or grasping a rescue line. Along with disorientation and panic, it can easily account for the reports of apparent “flailing about” of good swimmers in their death throws of cold water immersion. In these critical minutes, amplified by not wearing a PFD, the cold water victim, by inhaling too much water or by inability to maintain survival skills of staying afloat, swimming or grasping a line, ultimately drowns (16).

PHASE III: LONG TERM IMMERSION WITH ONSET OF HYPOTHERMIA
The reader is referred to multiple other sources.

PREVENTION OF COLD SHOCK
1. Do not go out on cold water if capsize is likely; paddle only on warm water. This is not realistic for most.
2. Take the temperature of the water before venturing out on it. Know what you are dealing with.
3. Wear a PFD that will keep your nose, mouth and head out of the water or you can drown without immediate assistance from someone else. Many Class III and V PFD’s worn by paddlers will not right you if you cannot right yourself or are unconscious. (4) Without a PFD in cold water, you can drown without ever coming back to the surface. No second chances here.
4. Wear protective clothing. The critical areas are the torso, head and neck. Dress to balance clothing for water and surface conditions (7) but keep in mind it is the water temperature that deserves most attention for cold shock protection.
The colder the water, the more you need protective clothing designed to keep the cold water off your skin which means seals at the neck, wrists, waist and ankles along with a neoprene head and neck hood. Judgment and common sense can help. If you are inexperienced, get advice from an experienced paddler.

Dry suits and neoprene wet suits are uncomfortable and often too warm, many claim, on a nice day but they will protect your torso from the immediate effects of cold water and decrease the chance of cold shock. One source states that without insulative protection underneath, a dry suit is not protection from cold shock. (3)
Polartec 2000, a new high tech tight fitting material with a fuzzy comfortable inner layer and windproof and near waterproof double outer stretchy layers, prevents the rapid movement of cold water to the skin. (15) It acts like a wetsuit and is rated to 2.5 mm neoprene. Different shapes for the corresponding body parts (feet, hands, head and neck, torso) are available. It has promise to decrease cold water mortalities since more boaters may wear it (it’s reportedly comfortable), it insulates and slows water ingress to skin.

ACA (American Canoe Association) Recommendation for Paddling in Cold Water (1)
* When the water temperature is < 60* F, wear “specialized insulating clothing”
* Always wear a wet suit or dry suit
If combined air/water temperature is < 120 * F
If you plan to paddle far from shore in cold water
In milder weather when you expect repeated exposures to cold water

Recommended Layers for Cold Water Paddling (if no full dry/wet suit) (4) (7) (14)
Neoprene head and neck hood (**) or Fleece/wool neck warmer and skullcap (**) Poly pro long johns (**)
Hydroskin farmer john (**) Wind/rain/paddle pants
Neoprene booties (**)
Poly pro top (**)
Hydroskin top (**)
Fleece/wool top or sweater
Paddle jacket (best: dry with neck, wrist and waist seals) Pogies or paddle gloves (**)
(**) Could be replaced by Polartec 2000

5. Never paddle alone on cold water.
6. Some recommend practicing voluntary cold water exposure (progressively colder showers before practice cold submersion) in order to build up your tolerance to cold water. (3) This, however, along with jumping in cold water to test your choice of protective clothing, is inherently dangerous.

CONCLUSION
The main objective in paddle sports is to stay safe. For the informed and responsible paddler on cold water, acceptance of the issues of cold shock means dressing appropriately, maintaining your skills and avoiding cold water immersion to keep from drowning in the short term and warding off hypothermia in the long term. Grandpa, an old Navy man, used to say, “Water (the sea) simply waits for the innocent but actually stalks the unprepared, the careless and the arrogant.”

ADDENDUM: ADDITIONAL COLD WATER AND ASSOCIATED INFORMATION
* Statistically, canoe or kayak capsize occurs equally on calm or rough water. (6)
* Cold water removes heat from the body 25 - 30 times faster than cold air - much from the head and neck. (1) (7) (
* Physical activity in cold water increases heat loss. (6)
* Alaska has 10 X the national boating fatality rate. (9)
* More than 50% of fatal boating accidents (PA) occur in cold water, often fair weather, close to shore. (6)
* The killing factor is often that first shock of cold water on the body. (
* Strong swimmers wearing a PFD have died before covering 100 yards in cold water. (14)
* In water < 40* F, a strong man can expire before swimming 100 feet. (14)
* An average person has a 50/50 chance of surviving a 50 yard swim in 50* F water. (13)
* A 50 year old person in 50* F water has a 50/50 chance of surviving 50 minutes. (13)
* An unclothed person in 34* F water will maintain core temperature for 20 - 30 minutes. (1)
* Of 130 drownings in Canada in 2004 (16)
- 60% drowned in water under 10* C (50* F)
- 34% drowned in water between 10* - 20* C (50* - 68* F)
- 48% were in a boat that capsized or was swamped
- 43% were less than 2 meters from shore/safety (shore, boat, dock, etc) - 66% were less than 15 meters from shore/safety
- Only 12% were properly wearing a lifejacket
* Of 524 fatal boating accident drownings in the US in 2002 (17)
- Nearly 85% of the victims were not wearing a PFD meaning 440 lives could have been saved if boaters had worn a lifejacket
- Over 48% (254 of 524 total) drownings occurred in boats less than 16'
- Canoes/kayaks were the 2nd most common type of boat involved in drowning incidents (1st type was open motorboat)
* Of 710 boating related deaths in 2006, the USCG reports 9 out of 10 persons were not wearing a PFD (1
* "Wear a Lifejacket" (19)
- People tend to drown in silence and without attracting attention.
- The struggle to breathe and stay afloat rarely enables them to wave their arms
or call for help.
- 75% of boating fatalities could have been prevented if the victim were wearing
a lifejacket.
* In Washington State, kayakers had the highest use (87%) of wearing a PFD, while motorboats had the lowest use (21%). (20)
* "In 2007, 107 fatalities were attributable to canoes, kayaks and rowboats. The use of
properly fitted lifejackets could have prevented nearly all those fatalities." (21)

REFERENCES
(1) “Cold Water Survival”, www.acanet.org/safety
(2) “Baby It’s Cold Outside (believe it or not)”, Pennsylvania Fish & Boat Commission,
Apr 21, 2005, www.sites.state.pa.us
(3) www.atlantickayaktours.com/pages/expertcenter/cold water
(4) Sea Kayak Chesapeake Bay, www.seakayak.ws
(5) “Cold - a Factor in Water Deaths”, www.wainwrighth.army.mil/safety/winter
(6) “Critical Judgment II”, American Canoe Association, Understanding and Predicting Canoe and Kayak Fatalities 1996 - 2002, 2004.
(7) “Cold Water Immersion”, Alaska Sea Kayaking Symposium, www.aksks.org
( Workers Compensation Board of BC, WS04-01, www.worksafebc.com
(9) “Cold Injuries Guidelines”, Version 2003, State of Alaska, www.chems.alaska.gov (10) www.americanboating.org/hypothermia
(11) “Immersion in Cold water and Hypothermia”, J Tsung, MD, www.nykayak.com (12) “Off Season Boating, Cold Shock and Hypothermia”, www.enter.net/~skimmer/
coldwater.html
(13) “Safety On (and in) the Water”, www.capital.net/com/nckayak/nck_safety_p4.html (14) “Hypothermia and Cold Shock”, P Siedel, USCG Aux, www.auxguidanceskills.info/press/hypothermia.html
(15) www.hendersonusa.com, www.seattlefabrics.com
(16) www.coldwaterbootcamp.com/pages/1_10_60v2.html
(17) www.uscgboating.org/statistics/boating_statistics_2002.pdf
(1 www.cdc.gov/HomeandRecreationalSafety/Water-Safety/waterinjuries- factsheet.htm
(19) www.drowning-prevention.org/drowning_fact_sheet.pdf
(20) www.drowning-prevention.org/pdf/obs_2000.pdf
(21) www.commanderbob.com/canoes.html
Rev 03/06/09


[hardee]

Foggy, nice. A very good article. I believe since your research on that it has been shown that in that "Phase 1" Cold Water Shock progression you discribe, there is the initial exposure to cold water, and if that is to the face and head, along with the gasp reflex, and particularly in victims over 50 years old, the cardiac response is ventricular fibrilation within 30 to 60 seconds. That is almost universally a non self regulating arrhythmia leading to asystole, loss of consciousness, drowning, (with aspiration of cold water into the lungs and subsequent death).

That won't change in anyway what you are saying, but clarify the physiology. Knowing that should change the method of entering the water in a forced situation IF one has any choice -- jump or belly flop rather than dive headfirst. Keep your head out of the water as much as possible, at any length, to increase your survival chance.

Thanks for sharing that article. Great info to know.

Harvey
SleepyC

[Phil Barnes]

There are several excellent videos on YouTube from Cold Water Boot Camp. I have attached the long one but shorter versions are available if you search. These are Olympic class and rescue swimmers in cold water in a controlled environment. It illustrates the 1-10-1 principle as to physiological effects. It doesn't matter how good a swimmer you are, the body is not designed for prolonged exposure in cold water. This video made believers of us. We don't kayak in salt water in the PNW, even for short trips on nice days, without a dry suit.

This is a good thread with excellent discussion and resources. For cold water kayaking, the dry suit is like a PFD, it isn't much good if you are not already wearing it on entry to the water.

Transit on the CD 22 is a bit different and we use other precautions similar to what Harvey has lined out on Sleepy C, although not as extensive since we are not single handling. We use a buddy system so if some one is more exposed in the cockpit or on the foredeck the other person is attentive and prepared if there is an accidental departure from the boat. We wear life jackets whenever on the foredeck, docking or snagging a mooring buoy.

I like Dave's approach to combining a wet suit Farmer John with a dry top and layers for a solid and economical approach for some immersion protection. The dry tops with the wider waist sealing band are best for sealing at that location. Add a neoprene hood and booties to that and you extend the protection time. That said, the more pieces you have to manage the more time it takes to put them on before water entry.

Great comments and shared knowledge on an important topic. As they say, "You don't need it until you need it!"

https://vimeo.com/4534662

[Aurelia]

I have come to a similar conclusion to Dave as well. For the last 17 years, I have been trip planning and guiding small group 4-8 sea kayaking trips in the northwest USA, but mostly BC. Not including survival suits, because they are not mobile enough, I have seen folks suffer through all manner of paddling wear and have done the same myself. For our small group trips where we stay together, we have found a set of fabric waist waders paired with a dry top to be the most comfortable and flexible. It allows variation in underlayers, is breathable, waterproof, can be walked in for long periods, and offers restroom functionality beyond compare. The real bonus, is also the lower section being around 100-150 dollars to replace when worn to the point of failure. If you walk through brush and climb over sharp rocky areas plus spend time around camp fires, you will kill your lower waterproofs in 2-5 years while the tops tend to weather the punishment for 5 plus years without any trouble.

Dry suits are good gear, and do offer a good safety margin for prolonged immersion, but they are also hotter much of the time, accumulate more internal moisture, and are harder to live with. I find folks who melt/scrape/punch a hole in them also curse louder and for a longer periods, likely due to the high cost.

These activities are about having fun and enjoying various aspects of wilderness survival and living. The wader/drytop combo brings the most smiles per dollar and is the favored option with my groups.

However, If paddling was more isolated from a group or solo, I would lean toward a drysuit for longer waterproof performance when submerged. That is an important distinction and could be a lifesaver when less help is near for re-entry in tough conditions and nearshore when extraction before re-entry is required. You would not believe the conditions we will fish in close to shore.

Wetsuit bottoms can work, but I have not had a person use them for more than a first trip after seeing the comfort and ease of movement others experience in fabric gear.

I don't have a drysuit anymore because my swiftwater rescue days are behind me, and I will not paddle alone.

My current gear is a set of Cabelas Waist waders

http://www.cabelas.com/product/fishing/fishing-waders/mens-waist-high-waders/pc/104793480/c/675616680/sc/104107680/cabelas-premium-stft-waist-hi-waders/2421168.uts?slotId=0

A pair of NRS shoes
https://www.nrs.com/product/2327/nrs-kicker-wetshoe-closeout

A solid dry or semi-dry top

https://www.polyvore.com/patagonia_lotus_designs_home_stretch/thing?id=85732449

Various poly underlayers plus hiking pants plus medium weight wool socks and variety of fingerless neoprene/fleece gloves.

Here is me with the top half components. https://photos.app.goo.gl/sl0hWdvcSmJVtC472

Here are whole set examples.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/3Ig1UYzCigw6dw012

Where the Pacific meets the rocks is where I like to fish.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/UjFbTcFrHCJU9IRB3

Greg

[Aurelia]

For boating use, I also keep considering one of these as another safety item. They used to sell a smaller version that had more small boat carry appeal.

http://www.switlik.com/marine/mrp10

Greg

[Aurelia]

I forgot to note that the overlap of the waist seal on the drytop and the waist waders, plus the spray skirt band many use, creates a nearly waterproof seal and can be swam in with minor leakage only. That is enough safety margin for group travel in my experience. A change of clothing is always carried of course.

Greg