batteries/winter

cpt vic · Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 8:25 pm Post subject: batteries/winter

We are taking delivery in march and the dealer is wrapping and storing for us, when I asked about removal and storage of the batteries their responce was they leave them in and they'l be fine. I always thought that you should remove and store them inside maybe put them on a charge at least once till next season. They are brand new and I 'd like to keep it that way.. Should I be concerned? We are in mid atlantic area. thanz

John J · Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 8:42 pm Post subject: Batteries

Cpt Vic, Congratulations! I'm on the Chesapeake as well, down in Annapolis, MD. Everything I have read or been told about batteries is that if they are going to sit unused for more than 30 days in freezing weather, yank them and store them in the basement on a wood plank, not on a concrete floor. Charge them monthly until it warms up. Make sure there is ventilation as they can give off noxious fumes when charging. I've been doing this for past 4 yrs and have had no problems. Good luck. Mike on the John J

Rabidfish · Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 10:13 pm Post subject:

The facts are:

Three things will damage a battery. 1)Heat, 2)Vibration, and 3)Neglect.
1) cold is better! Long hot summer days kill a battery faster than any freeze...

2) Vibration, or outright pounding, weaken, then fractures the plates or the plate support devices inside the battery.

3) Wet, dirty batteries discharge, discharged batteries freeze, frozen batteries fail...

The point is this... Keep it in a cool(or cold) dry place, in a fully charged condition. Don't toss them around or drop them. Keep them clean.

"Keeping a battery on a wood block" is outdated. Since batteries have been built with plastic cases, it no longer matters what it's stored on, even concrete cannot/will not discharge a battery prematurely. If the battery is kept clean, dry, and cool, it will survive. If it doesn't... it wasn't any good anyways. And remember, just because it will start your engine, doesn't mean it's "good".

Q) If a battery has a CCA rating of 800 amps, and it only has a loaded capacity of 500 amps is the battery "good"? Even if the engine only needs 150 amps to crank?
A) Nope!

MOOSE · Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 10:07 am Post subject:

I asked a large northern MN Sea Ray dealer once what they do about battery storage in all the boats they have sitting in their lot over the winter. He said they just leave them in as it would be a monumental job taking them all out and re-installing them in the spring and that it didn't really hurt them anyway. Since then, I have taken to doing the same with no apparent ill effects. I never liked doing it because they are so physically difficult to remove from the confines of the lazarettes. So just charge them up in the fall and again in the spring and you should be fine.
Al
PS - we hit -40F last winter, too!

B~C · Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 10:53 am Post subject:

there's some good info above. You should see if the dealer will just wait and install new batteries later.

a few battery thoughts;
Placing a battery on a concrete floor is the best way to start an argument in a shop. With todays battery case construction there is no worry about it discharging, however, in the long run, the difference in Temp between the concrete floor and the ambient air can cause the electrolite to 'swirl" and cost you a few amps...cool air slows the chemical reaction in the battery, nuttin wrong with that.... an interesting test to demonstrate the importance of a clean battery, take a voltmeter and place a probe from the + post to anywhere on the battery case and you may see a reading from anywhere from 0 to 9 volts depending on the grime content of the case

Capt Vic, I guess we can safely assume that the batteries can make it untill March, but how are you going to hold out with winter coming and a new boat just a waiting to get wet Smile

Otter-BelleHavenMarina · Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 1:48 pm Post subject:

When I got my boat in 2001, Cutter recommended a little solar panel for each battery, mounted on the motor well, that provides a little trickle that "conditions" the battery (I think those were his words). Don't know how much of a difference those have made, but I got four years out of my first set of batteries, which I think is pretty good. I never removed them or charged them the whole time. I have used the boat throughout the winter every year -- not as much as in summer, but probably at least once every five or six weeks.

cpt vic · Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 3:53 pm Post subject: follow up

thanx seems I feel better about leaving them in for this winter anyway.. once c~pearl is stored at home for wintertimes we will remove batteries to the basement as always.
yeah this winter will be an anxious one waiting and waiting but there are window covers to make and extras to plan for.

Swee Pea · Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 10:20 pm Post subject:

Is it not true that if you have shore power and the battery charger, it trickle charges at very low power and keeps the battery up without having to remove it. Isn't kind of the same thing you do with a motorcycle battery? At least that is what I have been told.

John
Swee Pea

Sea Wolf · Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 10:46 pm Post subject:

John-

That's what I've always heard.

However, be sure you have a charger that is capable of genuinely going down to a real trickle level, otherwise it will gradually damage the battery through overcharging. The level must be really low, or better yet, regulated automatically by a sensor in the charger.

If unsure of your unit, charge it once a month, checking with a voltmeter or hydrometer for charge, then disconnect for another month.

The better chargers have at least three charge levels and are self-regulating. Some have a feature which works to remove sulfation on the battery plates when activated. Joe.

Swee Pea · Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2005 4:59 pm Post subject:

Let's see here. Guest Model 2610 10 Amp On Board Battery Charger. On page 4 of the owner's manual under operating the charger, it says, "When the LED is on, the 2610 is charging at a "FLOAT" or "MAINTENANCE" rate of less than 3 Amps, (stage 3). Your batteries are now 90% charged and ready for use. This "float" charging current will gradually decrease to as low as 0.1 Amps and the batteries reaches 100% charge. They will now be kept at full charge without ever over-charging. ..."

You guys with electrical experience, does this mean that if I leave on the shore power all winter (I have a small cabin de-humidifying heater that is supposed to keep the mildew out - running) that the batteries will stay charged and "trickle" maintained by the Guest charger?

There seems to have been enough discussion and interest on this matter to warrant a little more discussion, especially for the "thick of skull" like me! I don't know much about this battery stuff, Amps, volts, etc. I have read some of your knowledgable discussions and really don't follow. In simple terms, am I ruining the battery or am I doin' good?

Thanks to you all for a great site

John
Swee Pea

gljjr · Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2005 5:08 pm Post subject:

John,

that is sure the way I read that! Those guest chargers are the best thing for boat batteries! I am going to have to purchase one! My friend had one on his bass boat. He got almost 6 years out of his last battery( a single 36volt battery for his trolling motor).

Minnow · Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2005 6:22 pm Post subject:

I've had that charger on my last boat, (7 years) and now on my 25.
It works as advertised. Just top off the water now, plug it in, and forget it. Of course that assumes you're near power. If not, you're better off bringing them inside for prolonged freezing weather.
The charger that I use on my other vehicles, another 3 stage unit from Deltran,http://www.batterymart.com/battery.mv?c=deltranchargers is cheap enough to have several, or you can do like I do and move it around during the winter from bike to bike to tractor every couple of weeks.
It's way cheaper than replacing batteries.

k3nlind · Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 6:02 am Post subject:

Hi John...

Please tell me more about:

Norm S · Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 10:57 am Post subject:

Several yrs ago at an aircraft maintenance seminar I had the opportunity to talk with the rep from one of the aircraft battery manufacturers. His take was that if you kept a battery "topped off" you could up to triple its' life. I have used the solar chargers where a plug in was not available and they seem to do the job. For my Harleys I use a little charger called a battery tender. It keeps a low level float on the batteries all the time. am planning on putting one of the Guest chargers on the boat.
Norm

stevej · Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 11:36 am Post subject:

Pat I use two of these on Shearwater
http://www.davisnet.com/marine/products/list_marine.asp?grp=mo1
The circular Air-Dryr 1000 handles up to 1,000 cubic feet of living space, drawing 1.1 amps

They are much safer than a portable heater IMHO. Keeps the moisture out and adds enough heat to keep things from freezing.

Replaced my Guest charger with a 20amp 3-bank Xantrax truecharge 3 stage charger and added the remote temp sensor. Always plugged in when moored or at home. Have read several articles that say max battery life is obtained by keeping a maintenance charge when not in use.

stevej
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