Help Please, No Power is Reaching Electrical Panel at Helm!

[Pat Anderson]

We were last out in August 2015, and everything was working fine. Daydream has been in our garage since then with the shore power plugged in. Fast forward to today, I pulled the boat out into the driveway, no horn, no lights, no accessories, no water pump, no nothing controlled from the panel at the helm. But the charger is working, batteries are fully charged and not from solar because boat has been in the garage. There is a big breaker that sits right by the starting battery, and it is popped (I think it is popped, the little lever is out) and it won't reset (which I think I would do by pressing the little lever back in, but it won't stay in). Is this breaker indeed the culprit, and if so, how do I deal with it? What could have caused it to pop in the first place, there has been no load on the 12 volt system at all.

[Pat Anderson]

OK, mystery solved I think. I just pulled the breaker, and here is a pic:



The terminal connector on the cable that was connected to the really corroded post was broken. Broken terminal connector equals broken circuit, no juice!

The breaker MIGHT still actually work, but given its corroded appearance, I am going to replace it. It has been down there for eleven years now, time to retire it!

The bigger problem for me is how to put a terminal connector on the cable. I think the cable is probably AGW 4, at least it looks bigger than the AWG 6 I have on the solar controller to batteries on the fifth wheel. Off to LFS tomorrow I guess!

[AstoriaDave]

You also have a poor location for that breaker, based on the corrosion. It should be up out of the bilge area. Or, maybe this boat spent some time underwater?

[Pat Anderson]

[thataway]

Yep, Pat you are right to replace the brakes. There is a lot of condensation, from bilge water in the 25, and unfortunately this is probably the best place to put the breaker--should be within 7" of the battery. I would do several things. Replace the same breaker but with a 60 amp breaker. I would either get one of the "hit the spot" with a hammer swagers, (but use Vise Grips or a vise to do the crimp. Or buy a hydraulic hand crimper from Harbor Freight.

When you assemble the circuit coat the terminals and fittings with conductive non corrosive grease. Spray the complete switch with "corrosion block". Every year, check the fittings, and re apply the grease and corrosion block.





The Harbor Freight is cheaper, and better, but be sure you use the right die.

[hardee]

Hi Pat, Sorry about the electrical issue. Better in the driveway than in the anchorage off Stuart Island. Looking at the picture, your fuse was in about the same shape as mine last Spring when it was replaced at Roger's Marine in Portland. They said replace it or it would go bad. Guess they were right.

Mine is in the stbd lazzarette, high and dry, but still looked "crusty" and ??? So I took Their advise.

Hope it is all better now.

Harvey
SleepyC

[tomherrick]

Bob,

I'm always leery of Harbor Freight "tools". Have you used this one? I'm not averse to so-so quality tools if I'm only going to use them once in a while, but...

Link to the Hydraulic Wire Crimping Tool at HF: http://www.harborfreight.com/hydraulic-wire-crimping-tool-66150.html

[olsurfdog]

Tomherrick
I used one (Harbor Freight hydraulic crimper that Dr Bob showed). Rewired my boat and used it for all the larger crimps. It worked very well -- no problems at all. Nice solid crimps. I was impressed, it seems like good quality tool. I wouldn't hesitate to get another except that this one is still good! My figuring about HF tools is that if they last to get the job done and it's not a tool I need all the time, why spend more. If it's a tool I use all the time I'll go for a real commercial tool.

[Wigeon]

Hi Pat, I'm pretty sure LFS has a hyd terminal crimper for customer use. I've used their hyd crimper for wire rope (cable) many times and believe it is also used for copper terminals. They also have wire remnants at attractive prices. Text me if you need a hand. Larry

[thataway]

I have borrowed a friends for a couple of swages-don't own one, but thinking about buying one. . My friend, who does a lot of electrical work on boats has one, and it has worked well for him--as I recollect a couple of the dies were not perfect, and he had to do some minor modification. I tend to agree that HF are not the best tools, but this type is better than many. I have used the "hit the hammer"--in the vise or with large Vise Grips type many times. Not the best, but works--and I often sweat some solder down into the crimp after for the large cables. (Yes I know about the controversy about solder in boats. National standards makes a low temp solder system, and it works well.f)

Many stores have hand crimpers which can be used by customers. However, I suspect that the #6 or larger wire that Pat has, runs all of the way up to his helm--and that he would not want to take it out and then re-run. I would leave the cable and crimp in place--perhaps a new wire from the battery would be in order.

This is also a good illustration why if you are putting a large wire from the battery to the console, that you should leave a few inches to a foot of slack, so it can be re-swaged. a small supported loop would be ideal.

[potter water]

There is a mechanical reason for not soldering the terminals after crimping. A good terminal and a good crimper will create a junction that minimizes cold working of the wire material.

This lesson was learned the hard way in aviation because of vibration. Solder can create a situation that creates a sharp edge that the encapsulated wires work against. Picture bending a copper wire over the edge of a 90 degree sharp angle time and again and it will soon crack. Bend the same wire over a radiused edge, and it will take many more straightening and bending cycles before damage resulte.

Boats are vibration machines like airplanes and though the potential risk to life and limb on a boat due to a broken or high resistance wire junction.

I've owned 5 larger boats and all five developed faults from bad wiring or connections at some time during my ownership. Many were factory sloppy work, most were aftermarket installer work or prior owner work.

As my granddaddy said, the right tool for the job and any job worth doing is worth doing right. My boat Poopsy is a poster child for poor wiring connections, factory and prior owner, bBut I'm putting them right, one by one.

[potter water]

There is a mechanical reason for not soldering the terminals after crimping. A good terminal and a good crimper will create a junction that minimizes cold working of the wire material.

This lesson was learned the hard way in aviation because of vibration. Solder can create a situation that creates a sharp edge that the encapsulated wires work against. Picture bending a copper wire over the edge of a 90 degree sharp angle time and again and it will soon crack. Bend the same wire over a radiused edge, and it will take many more straightening and bending cycles before damage resulte.

Boats are vibration machines like airplanes and though the potential risk to life and limb on a boat due to a broken or high resistance wire junction.

I've owned 5 larger boats and all five developed faults from bad wiring or connections at some time during my ownership. Many were factory sloppy work, most were aftermarket installer work or prior owner work.

As my granddaddy said, the right tool for the job and any job worth doing is worth doing right. My boat Poopsy is a poster child for poor wiring connections, factory and prior owner, bBut I'm putting them right, one by one.

[potter water]

Sorry for the double post.

[Sunbeam]

It's a bit more of an investment (but then tools are a good investment, right?), but I have an FTZ Heavy Duty Crimp tool, their part number 94284. It will crimp FTZ (and perhaps other brands) power lugs, starter lugs, and butt splices from AWG 8to 4/0. It's not cheap (I think it was around $180 when I bought it a few years ago - I got it from Fisheries Supply), and so I really debated before buying it. First, "Well, I could just get these few crimps done at XX store," then "Well I'll use it then sell it on eBay," then.... I bought it.

As it turns out, I have made hundreds of crimps with it. On the C-Dory, on my RV, on other people's RV's and boats. SO glad I bought it. It is so much easier to be able to make my own crimps as/when I need them. I can do one end, then get the lug facing *just* the right way on the other end (which can be a big deal with larger wire in small spaces). It just makes doing (and changing) things so much easier, and I have complete confidence in the crimps. I don't add any solder as they are super tight and completely resistant to heat (which hopefully I won't have, but still).

I purposely got the non-ratcheting version as in tight spaces the ratchet can be a liabliity (tool has long arms), and there is no trouble at all knowing when the crimps are complete.

I first heard of this from one of Maine Sail (Compass Marine, RC) and very glad I did. Incidentally, he reviewed the Harbor Freight crimper and gave it a big pan. Thing is, even though he is a tool snob and a pro, he does try to find usable, economical tools to recommend to DIY-ers (and I have bought of few of those that he did like); but he couldn't make peace with the HF crimper. I see someone on here likes it - that may be a sign of variable quality control, so maybe some are good. Or maybe you have a lot of AWG 7 to crimp

Anyway, I know not everyone will want to spring for this tool, but just wanted to mention it.

PS: When using the FTZ lugs (which are tinned copper with no built in covering), I use the FTZ Dual Wall adhesive heat shrink. I like that best of the various ones I've tried. It's tough, but also flexible.

Now, if I could JUST find a *good* non-electric heat gun I'd be in business. So far all I've tried just haven't been up to the task, so it's one of the few tools I still need to use an inverter or AC power for (electric heat gun for shrinking).

[thataway]