Clear the air CD ~ CC

[Cutty Sark]

Wow, very interesting read. I agree with Mr. Fisherman, and Starcraft Tom. They both have the right attitude from my perspective. It's about the people and adventures, and sharing information and ideas. The boats have something to do with it too, and they both are great boats. But the people are what make this particular owners group so great. Keep it up guys!!


Sark

[Catman]

Hi, Leo. That Fleming guy is someone I know nothing about, except that I liked his quote. It seems so true, and reminds me not to pout when things don't go as planned. Too, it reminded me of Alviq's trip up the inside passage with his brother last summer.

Glad you're still with us, Leo. How's your house coming?

[Pat Anderson]

Funny you should put it that way, me being the "beer guy" and all, and will be bringing the keg to the factory for the C-Dory factory part of the SBS / CBC Get-Together! I agree with most of what you said, but mainly, I agree that there are two sides to every story, guaranteed. In a way, I am sorry Mark chose to bring it here, and I sure hope Scot or Jeff do not feel compelled to answer, but it seems that some of the responses to Mark would cause ME to say "wait a minute, before you jump to conclusions, you ought to know...(whatever)." I would absolutely HATE to see this become the public forum for the airing out of the whole dispute, business, legal, moral, whatever, between C-Dory and Toland(s) / Cape Cruiser.

[True Story]

I want to thank Mr. Toland for sharing his thoughts and most importantly, creating a boat design that has brought all of us so much enjoyment. Personally, I welcome the Cape Cruiser as it will ultimately benefit the consumer of either manufacturers boat, pre and post boat purchase.

In respect to extra transom weight, he is dead on and I'm suprised anyone would seriously challenge his statement. A four stroke main and kicker package of similar horsepower can result in an additional 200 lbs of weight on the transom. Add extra size tanks and you can add another 40 lbs. All one needs to do is to look at how the boat sits in relationship to the water line or difference in gel coat colors. It also appears from a laymans perspective that it wouldn't take much effort to widen the transom on the CD 22 resulting in more bouyancy. Notwithstanding this issue, I'm still thinking the CD 22 would be the right choice for me today as it was three years ago.

[C-Hawk]

HEAR HEAR
I think Pat has said all that needs to be said. I, for one, would like to see the end of this discussion.

[Sea Wolf]

Roger, Pat, et al:

While I'd agree that an all out give and take antagonistic debate is definitely not what we want on this forum, I see no harm in bringing relevant and truthful information forward that will help the majority of us understand what has happened in this development, and, in turn, help eliminate any imagined evil motivations and intensions.

If the facts are not known, speculation knows no bounds.

Facts (assuming we can separate out any non-truths) will lead to a realistic understanding of the situation and how we can best live in reasonable peace together.

And, in the event that it is determined that there has been some occurrence of impropriety or malfeasance, we can also deal with that from a realistic, factual point of view.

Just my $0.02. Joe.

[Sea Wolf]

Leo, Catman:

"One sometimes finds what one is not looking for."
~Sir Alexander Fleming

Sir Alexander Fleming was the accidental discover of penecillin. While doing other research on microbes, he accidentally found out the the penicillium mold inhibits the growth of bacteria around it in colonies on Petri culture dishes. Nothing was known about these "antibiotic" properties at the time. The rest is the history of millions of saved lives. Dr. Fleming was knighted for his discovery. Joe.

[Rabidfish]

( My two cents )

I'd be happy fishing a mudpuddle from a soggy log if I could do it with friends and family...

I hope some CCs show up to our CD rendevous along with some ACBs and even a few Bayliners! It's the people you spend time with that's important!

( soapbox aside... for now )

[Leo Smith]

Hi Joe,
Thanks for the brief bio on Mr Fleming. Brock- the house is done and we have moved in. The landscaping and garage are the next phases, then I can think about getting another boat. In the mean time I still have my canoe and inflatable to get out on the water inbetween work and house projects.
I guess we have beat the C-D/C-C thread to death, so I will post no more remarks on the subject.
Best Regards, Leo.

[C-Bill]

Thank you Mark,

I will miss the Tolands in the Marine business. I have had much enjoyment from my 1991 22 ft. Cruiser. I'm still a fisherman at heart and I've thanked Tolands many times after a safe passage from an angry Pacific. Your efficient design is more in vogue today @ the price of gas.

Sincerely,

Bill Frerking
Carson City, NV

[TyBoo]

[CatyMae n Steve]

[Sea Wolf]

Mike- I was not in any suggesting that there has been anything inappropriate that has transpired between any of the participants in this C-Dory / Cape Cruiser development and discussion.

I simply think that it would be of value to have access to the truth about how the new boat was developed (when necessary) so that some of the wilder rumors and emotionally charged messages can be de-fused.

The remark about being able to judge for ourselves about any of the issues, real or imagined, was intended to pacify those that seem to have an agenda to prove that something is wrong somewhere in all of this.

Our C-Brat group has developed a great (some would say fanatic) sense of loyalty to the C-Dory, and some seem not only offended by the development of the Cape Cruiser, but also determined to prove ill will in it's appearance.

I share none of these feelings or suspicions, but think that only free access to the real truth can stop such foolishness. Those with the intent to prove something is amiss will create speculation that will be taken by at least some of others as fact, unless the truth be known.

This does not imply that I or anyone else should be privy to any of the relationships between any of the parties that is confidential or private in any other way, just that those facts be brought forward as necessary to de-bunk any imaginary assumptions about how this new boat was developed or marketed.

I'll freely admit that in an earlier post I was speculating on what I thought might have been the intent of the designers of the Cape Cruiser in creating a new product, but thought that was clear from the way it was stated. I was not trying to promote the boat in any way, just what I thought might have been the intent from the resultant features of the boat.

In this emotionally charged atmosphere, it's getting increasingly difficult to say anything without someone misinterpreting what is meant.

I know you understand that I'm not really trying to stir up trouble, but instead looking for the facts to emerge from the participants when needed to calm down any unnecessary confusion and angry feelings. There's nothing worse that seeing our friends argue amongs themselves about something they don't really fully understand because the necessary facts are obscured.

I'm sure my "search for the truth" attitude in all of this stems from by training and experiences as a teacher, and hopefully it is not too naive.

Mike, you're revered as the leader of this fine group, and thought of with great respect. I appreciate your concern in the way you've handled this and hope you can fully understand how I feel about it. Thanks!. Joe.

[Redƒox]

... I think ya all have had too much coffee

[AK Angler]

Amen to that...