Cruising on Erie Canal

cracker39 · Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:55 am Post subject: Cruising on Erie Canal

I'm considering a 22' Cruiser with a single 90 hp Honda. The speed on the Erie Canal is limited to 10 mph (kts?) - or essentially "no wake." How would this rig perform with these restrictions? I plan to do the entire 500 plus miles.
I'm also considering the Ranger 21EC - but subsequent usage would be on the coastal waters of Maine where I'm certain the 22' C-dory would be the better choice.

thataway · Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 12:03 pm Post subject:

The 90 hp idles down well, and that should not be a problem. However, I do like to bring an engine up to speed occasionally, and you want to be sure that the engine is at operating temperature.

10 mph (or Knots) is certainly not a "no wake" speed. Most boats will have a significant wake at that speed, including the C Dory and Ranger 21.

However: these are often posted speed limits--and those who live there and frequent the canal can verify what the limits are:

Bill K · Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 12:32 pm Post subject:

I have a 1989 22' cruiser with a 2013 90 hp Honda and it will idle down to 2 mph.

Bill Kelleher

ssobol · Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 1:13 pm Post subject:

Two Bears · Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 2:25 pm Post subject:

From Hull Speed (about 5 knots) up to about 10 knots a C-22 is climbing up on "plane." I consider that a "no go" zone for my boat as it wastes fuel and does not handle well. The first "sweet spot" is about 12+ knots and I like 17-18 better when the water is calm. So for the restricted parts of the Eire Canal I do hull speed and let other boats go by me. You see more that way.

My Suzuki idles at 600 rpm and it takes 1,900-2,100 rpm for hull speed, and 4,200 rpm for the 17 knot sweet spot. I doubt there is much problem running all day at 2,000 rpm, but I do like to run it up and "blow it out" at least once a day. Perhaps that's old thinking, but then so am I.

JamesTXSD · Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 2:27 pm Post subject:

While much of the Erie Canal is a 10 mph speed limit, there are also parts of it where the speed is not restricted. We did the Erie Canal, Hudson River, and the Trent-Severn Waterway in the summer of 2009. Our C-Dory was a great boat for that trip.

The Erie Canal is a treasure; not something to be done at a high rate of speed, even if there weren't speed restrictions. It is all the interesting towns and people you'll meet along the way that make it special.

Jim B.

Here's a link to where our time on the Erie started...

http://captnjim.blogspot.com/2009/07/back-in-water-and-ready-to-cruise.html

Foggy · Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:43 pm Post subject:

cracker39 · Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:44 pm Post subject:

The comment about a 5 kt hull speed is interesting - and makes the boat more to my liking. My previous 29' Prairie trawler - with a true displacement hull - would get up to right about an 8 to 9 kt hull speed before throwing much wake. I realize that most all planing hulls - and many semi-displacement hulls can throw a wicked wake at any speed off-plane. I can certainly live with (---even "enjoy") 5 kts, with an occasional burst to let the engine breathe. I would considered a 10 hp "no row" auxilliary - provided it could be controlled alongside the main engine while the latter is raised clear of the water. I think I've seen this setup - but I'm not really that knowlegeable about rigging outboards.

thataway · Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 7:59 pm Post subject:

It is very common to have a "kicker" on the C Dory, next to a single engine. Some use 8 hp high thrust outboards, which are probably the best engine for this use. Others use 6 to 10 hp outboards. Some use a separate mount, and some mount the aux motor on the transom. Many use an articulating bar to link the two engines to gather. Actually the main engine will act as a rudder at low speeds, with the "kicker" fixed--but not for tight quarter maneuvering. I use a 3.5 hp 2 stroke, which is my dinghy motor, and it will give 3 to 4 mph. I have also used a Toqeedo electric outboard as a dinghy motor and a "low speed" kicker on the C Dory 22. It does not take much hp to move a boat several knots--as long as you stay well below the theoretical hull speed--which is pretty close to 1.34 x the sq root of LWL of the individual boat.

cracker39 · Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 9:27 am Post subject:

In "Two Bears" post it was suggested that a Suzuki running at around 2000 rpm would take the boat up to hull speed. Would that be about the same for a 90 Hp Honda? What about the use of a "trolling plate" attached to the motor to permit somewhat higher rpm's? Kindly keep in mind that these questions are from the perspective of a sailor, diesel trawler owner, and small fishing motor owner - not someone familiar with larger horsepower outboards.

Foggy · Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:04 am Post subject:

My understanding is a vessel's "hull speed" is mostly determined by it's hull
length at the waterline and the hull shape, not the auxiliary power; relatively little
horsepower can propel a large vessel to reach it's hull speed. Although there
may be an equation or formula for this to find what power is needed in a specific
size planing, displacement or semi-displacement hull, in my mind it's all relative.

KISS requires
1. Little power to obtain hull speed
Ex: 18 hp to propel a 40' sailbote 6 knots
2. Much more power to obtain planing speed
Ex: 90 hp to propel a 26' CD Venture 12 mph
3. Exponentially more power to go "real fast"
Ex: 830 hp to propel a 28' deep V 80 mph

Been thar', done that.

Aye.

Foggy · Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:42 am Post subject:

Correction to above;

1. Little power to obtain hull speed
Ex: 18 hp to propel a 40' sailbote 8 knots
(40' LOA, 36' WLL : 1.35 x 36 sq rt = 1.35 x 6 = 8.1)

Aye.

Grandma used to say, "The devil is in the details."

bcassal · Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 1:19 pm Post subject:

http://www.sailingcourse.com/keelboat/cal__hull_speed.htm

We putter at hull speed in our 22 with one 40 hp engine at about 2000 rpm.

Carpy

Will-C · Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 1:45 pm Post subject: Cruising on Erie Canal

The Erie canal meets the Hudson River at Troy New York. At some point you might want to go north on the Hudson and do the Champlain canal and on up into Lake Champlain. Plenty to see and Lake Champlain has plenty to offer in the way of marinas and towns. The folks in upstate New York are the best. Check out this website on both canals and more. WWW.tug44.org
D.D.

Two Bears · Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 9:30 pm Post subject:

Cracker39 asked about Honda power for hull speed. I suspect that the two motors, both being modern computer controlled electronic ignition, get about the same efficiency/ economy.

My setting of 1,900 -2,100 for hull speed in Two Bears is just from experience/ practice. If anything I may be pushing it above hull speed a bit. If I keep the speed down I get about 7 miles per gallon. When I push it above 6 kts to the 12 knot or higher range the fuel use increases (mpg reduces) to about 3.5 miles per gallon. That 50% reduction in miles per gallon occurs in the 6 to 12 knot range. After you get on plane at about 12 kts I don't think fuel economy is too greatly affected by speed. I (think) I get about 3.5 mpg at 12 kts and 3.0 at 18 kts.

Chuck