Who built it?

[ssobol]

We all know that the C-Dory line has changed hands a number times. There has been mention in various places in the forums that the some C-Dory's may be better than others by virtual of by who and where they were built.

Is it possible to tell from looking at some give away on the boat or by hull number where a particular boat was built?

[colobear]

The place of manufacture is usually shown under the logo decal on the side of the cabin. The HIN will show date of manufacture, that can be correlated with dates of ownership to show which of the factory ownerships made the boat. That said, some being "better" than others is very relative. The "worst made" C-Dory is head and shoulders above most other boats. There are many C-Dory's out there from all the various factory owners that are great boats. I wouldn't lose sleep over it.

[journey on]

This question has come up time after time. I think the question may be paraphrased by: who built a crappy C-Dory?

Now, there have been 5 manufactures, counting all the various permutations. And there are various differences, such as the molded interior (boo/yea, depending on your thoughts,) There have been some overlooked area (sealing the C-25 anchor locker, for example.) The 22 underwent a hull change in the 90's.

But in perusing this site for the last 9 years, there has never been a bad C-Dory. Except one up in Oxnard 7-8 years ago, and that one was replaced by the builder (whoever that was at the time.)

So, I think that any year, any size is a good one. Check out the one you're interested in and if it's good it's good.

Boris

[Dreamer]

In my humble, non boat owner opinion, the best C-Dory's are the ones being built right now! And, I bet you can get a tour of the factory and see why. Barry's right about them all being a cut above however.

[Jake B]

what was the hull change in the 90's? I thought they made the semi v change in 87? and continued with that lay out to current production? would be interested in what changes were made and what year it took over in production

[Wefings]

Yours was likely built by C Dory Marine Group [Reynolds and Co.] in Auburn Wa.
If the hull # starts with "CDO" it was before Fluid Marine purchased it .
"US-UWH" was Fluid Marine after Reynolds.
NWM is Northwest Marine Industries [current owners]
DOR was the original Toland [pre Reynolds] prefix
CMC was the Lindhout [they has Sea Sport too and chaged to Trrdent ] period from Bellinham/Ferndale

Confused yet ?
We offer counseling for confused C Dory owners ..........
Marc

[Sunbeam]

I think it is interesting to have a timeline of what was built where and when. Not to establish which boats are better or worse, but just as a matter of fact and interest in the history.

So it sounds like the "CDO" HIN is the one that spans more than one builder/location (i.e. the other ones seem to pertain to one builder/one era).

Here is a rough time frame as I know it. Perhaps others can help to fill in the blanks or make corrections. I won't mention feature changes as that would make it get really detailed/complicated.

??? to 2000 or so (?)
C-Dorys built by Toland in Kent, WA.
HIN starts with "DOR"

2001 to....?? 2004?
C-Dorys built by C-Dory (successor to Toland) but in same building in Kent and largely by the same crew on the floor as were building them for Toland.
HIN starts with "CDO"

My boat is a late 01 "hull laid" for an 02 model year, and is a "CDO" HIN built at Kent, WA. From what I understand this was basically the Toland crew on the floor, but after Toland sold sometime in the 2000 time frame. I believe Da Nag is a late 03 beginning for an 04 model year and was also built at Kent by the post-Toland C-Dory, but essentially with the same crew.

2005?? through 2008 (?)
C-Dory moved to Auburn and (around that same time?) ramped up production and there was a (gradual?) crew change on the floor. Or maybe it was just a "dilution" of the original crew due to adding more people since many more boats were being built per year. Possibly some of the "Toland crew" went to build Cape Cruisers with Tolands. I think this was in the 2005 (or maybe 2006)-2008 time frame?
HIN is still "CDO"

2009
I know at least some 2009 22's were built by Fluid, as I looked at one when I was boat shopping.
HIN is "US-UWH" (according to Marc) (although I always thought they were just 3 digits? Maybe that is changing as they are running out of unique ones?)

After that I have not kept track

Sunbeam

[Sea Wolf]

[chimoii]

Our 2008 Venture is a CDO but the certificate of origin identifies Fluid as the builder. I think there was some overlap.

[Wefings]

Yup , they bought a bunch of unfinished stuff .
Marc

[Pat Anderson]

Well, not to knock anybody's boat, but here is how I see it. Sorry it is a bit of an epistle, but this is something few people besides me were in a position to observe over the years.

I don't know about the Tolland era, probably good judging by the number of those boats still around.

The Reynolds era in Kent - excellent, a dedicated small crew of craftsmen building about six boats a month. We saw this first hand with the build of our CD22 in 2003. Buck Smith was in charge of our build, then he went to the ill-fated Cape Cruiser, now he is at Tern Boat Salvage. Watching the build and interacting with the crew was a fantastic experience. We knew we were getting the best.

The Reynolds era in Auburn - I think there was a huge drop-off. Their goal was 60 boats a month, and during the build of our CD25, I vividly recall the sign on the wall "Saturday is a mandatory work day for production workers." The crew was not a small dedicated crew of craftsmen but a nameless, faceless crew with specialized jobs. A lot of them did not speak English. I was there a lot during the build of our CD25, nearly once a week, and it was very frustrating not to be able to speak to the guy doing whatever was being done, and never the same guy the next week. This is the era when a lot of shortcuts were taken, screws that were too long or too short were used, things were not sealed properly, wiring was messy, and so forth - problems that have long been noted here. The SAVING GRACE for us on our build was that Andrew Custis, who is now the customer relations guy with Ranger, was in overall charge of our build, and if we had any questions or comments, we went to Andrew, and he made sure everything we were concerned about was taken care of.

Towards the end of this period, Reynolds brought in a guy named Tom Latham, who came from Bayliner. His vision was to mass produce and mass market C-Dorys like Bayliners. He got rid of good small dealers like EQ Marine and hooked up with Lake Union Sea Ray. I remember how ridiculous it was to see C-Dorys lined up like Bayliners along I-5 in Federal Way. Just not the way C-Dory owners buy C-Dorys. They also cheapened the build - look at the plastic gunwale inserts instead of the molded gunwales earlier boats had, just one example. Latham also was behind the ill-fated C-Dory 29. I think Latham was personally responsible for taking the Reynolds Auburn C-Dory company down the tube.

The bright spots of the Reynolds era in Auburn were Jeff Messmer and Andrew Custis - two gentlemen who truly understood the value of keeping the customer satisfied and how to do it. I remember Jeff Messmer going to the Eastern Shore CBGT in 2005 just to take care of Brady Hill on Minnow, a boat with big problems. Search for Brady Hill or Minnow, and you will see that Brady's posts here were probably a huge part of the reason that Jeff decided it was very important in the long run that they take care of Brady's issues. Jeff Messmer did not survive at C-Dory much after Latham arrived. I remember asking Jeff where he stood with C-Dory, and he answered something like "I wish I knew." Maybe not a literal quote but that was the tenor. Now of course Jeff and Andrew take most excellent care of Ranger customers, and it has paid off extremely well for that company.

I can't comment on Fluid Marine, I think they tried hard but were saddled with too much bad stuff left over from the end of the Reynolds era. It was a short run.

The Lindhouts moved the factory to Whatcom County, first to the Wright Brothers factory, and then to Ferndale, where it still is. The Lindhout era was marked by financial stress, but their builds were excellent due to the production manager, Scott Boysen, who we got to know very well, because our place in Birch Bay is only a few miles from Ferndale and I went down to see Scott every chance I got. Scott paid a lot of attention to feedback, and was always trying to improve little design features - he showed us many of them. Scott also was willing to help owners of boats built by prior incarnations of the company. He installed our Webasto and washdown pump, for a fair price. He fixed my attempt to open up the vee-berth, and refused payment! He was reading C-Brats all the time, and was painfully aware of what we were saying about the Lindhouts shortcomings. Lindhouts went out in a cloud of dust in a lawuit and lost everything. They were very personable, but undercapitalized and bit off more than they could chew with C-Dory, SeaSport and the rest of the boats (Skagit Orca and Osprey).

Then the Wrights, who originally owned Sea Sport, emerged victorious from the lawsuit with all the brands and the factory. For reasons unknown to me, they elected not to keep Scott Boysen, who after Jeff Messmer and Andrew Custis, was a person at C-Dory who actually understood customer service. The Wrights view their factory as a production line, and do not do any service work, even though they are the most knowledgable and best equipped to do it. Their choice, but I say our loss. You may think differently if you have never been close to the factory and had good customer service direct from the factory.

What the future holds, who knows?

[smckean (Tosca)]

WOW, Pat........you know how to write! Fascinating.

[Jack in Alaska]

Pat,
Good job in laying the whole tumulus journey of C-Dory out for newer owners to understand.
I purchased my 1st CD in July 1983, a 22' Classic. I towed it back to Alaska w/o an engine. It cost $11,000 for the boat and trailer with and OB bracket but no engines. I wrote him a check and he said enjoy your new boat.
My son purchased it from me in 2009 and it is still running around Prince William Sound.
I personally dealt with Mark Toland when I purchased it. His father was there also. I asked him about the 27' model and he said to stick with the 22' as the 27 was not his best effort. I took his advice.
In 2006 I found the last, no.21 of 21, of the 26' ProAnglers in Fla. It was new and for sale. It is a CDO number built in April 2005. We could not come to a price agreement at Three Rivers Marine so I lost it, I thought. Well in 2009 I found it again on EBAY but this time it had been repossessed and had 130 hrs. on it. I purchased it sight unseen and had it towed from Fla. to Wash. where I picked it up and towed it to Alaska. I still have it and use it regularly.
It is a 2005 model and I wish that I could find out more about it. If anyone has any drawings or history/pictures I would appreciate seeing them. I received no paperwork or literature when I bought it.

Thanks for an excellent job of explaining the sequence.

[chimoii]

Quote: I can't comment on Fluid Marine, I think they tried hard but were saddled with too much bad stuff left over from the end of the Reynolds era. It was a short run.

I can only say that I had zero warranty defects in our Fluid built boat. The only thing that PBH did when I sent the boat back after a year was to put a metal strip along the deck aft of the cabin to ensure a good seal. I have had no water under the cockpit or any of the other reported problems. I can't say the same about the Sea Ray or even the Boston Whalers that we have bought new. All have had more minor teething problems. I would score the boat 10 after 6 years of ownership.

[Pat Anderson]

Well, great! LIke I say, Fluid Marine tried hard, they were good folks. I met the guy a couple of times, had his card for a while. I think he came to the boat business from running a a chain of veterinarian clinics or something? What was his name? I forget, would like to know for the next iteration of "who built it." Their timing was probably not too good with the Great Recession and all. But it sounds like their quality was good.