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Sunbeam
Joined: 23 Feb 2012 Posts: 3990 City/Region: Out 'n' About
State or Province: Other
C-Dory Year: 2002
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: Sunbeam
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Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the detailed input - I do understand that it's all subjective, but helpful nonetheless. |
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Not For Hire
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 347 City/Region: Cadillac, MI
State or Province: MI
C-Dory Year: 2004
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Not For Hire
Photos: Not For Hire
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Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 9:16 am Post subject: |
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Hello Sunbeam,
I put a 1300 in several years ago. I mounted it under sink on the cabinet wall not the hull wall. Fuel tank directly below so no sags in return line. The exhaust/intake is high enough to allow bend. I put in a metal heat shield as well as the fiberglass sheath to insulate the plethora of wires, cables, hoses, etc that run above the exhaust.
I have never had an issue wih it. It only has one setting, on or off. Too cold, layer up, too hot, open window. This single setting may make the unit inherently less complex (more reliable?) than the stoves with variable controls. I only start the heater when it can run for 30 minutes before being shut off, and the fan runs for several minutes cool down phase after shutting off. This may help keep the burn pot clean. I usually start the heater with engines running but I have started it on the trailer on below freezing days. I used kerosene the first year but then acquired several bottles of klean heat and have used that since. No problem with the now years old fuel which is stored in a cool, dark, place. Couple pics in my album.
Slight smell when first lit but this is outside the boat and only noticable if wind direction is toward boat and windows or doors open.
Regards,
Mark _________________ Mark S
Cadillac, Michigan |
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Sunbeam
Joined: 23 Feb 2012 Posts: 3990 City/Region: Out 'n' About
State or Province: Other
C-Dory Year: 2002
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: Sunbeam
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Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 11:41 am Post subject: |
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Mark,
Thanks, excellent info! Sounds like you installed yours about how/where I would do mine.
Reading about the features of the more sophisticated Wallases, they do sound like great units, but... I question whether I need one of them, wonderful or not. I'm used to heating with a wood stove, so with the fire cranking if you get too hot... move away or open the door Sounds like I could just keep those habits with the 1300.
The one thing I could see the "better" Wallases having the advantage in would be running a duct to the v-berth. I don't like it warm for sleeping, so that's not a factor, but I can imagine where i might be nice for circulating air/heat and drying things out up there. But..... I have fans.
So all in all, and since I don't always boat in a heating climate, the 1300 is sounding really appealing. And the "real world" info for our boats is great.
On my "plus" list for the Wallas is being able to, essentially, stockpile heat. With propane, I would be limited to only the amount of fuel I could carry in tanks in the dedicated locker (which, even if I modify the locker is only probably two 10# tanks at best), and it's not always that easy to refill propane tanks underway. With the Wallas, if I were doing a long/cold trip (say the Inside Passage or similar), I could "stock up" on extra gallons of Kleen Heat for that one time and carry them aboard. Likewise when not actively using the heater, I would only have to carry the small, "built in" tank and not give up my port lazarette (which I always had earmarked for a future propane locker, but which now of course I've started using for all manner of things and would really miss).
Course like anything on a boat, it's always a matter of balancing the inevitable compromises - sure glad it's fun |
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Ron on Meander
Joined: 17 Jun 2004 Posts: 561 City/Region: Powell River
State or Province: BC
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Meander
Photos: Meander
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Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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The simplicity of the Wallas 1300 is great..... however it is too small for a CD 25 and probably marginal in the 22 if you boat in the cool Northwest in the shoulder seasons. I have a Wallas 1800 installed under the galley in my 25. If I didn't also have the Wallas 95 heater/cooker I would not have enough heat for some of the late fall/winter boating I do. The 1800 will raise the the cabin about 5-10 degrees C/8-16F above the outside temp. If I was choosing a heater today I'd pick the Wallas 2400 cause it runs on good old diesel and would have enough output for the cool northwest. I like the ducting available on the other models as well. It allows you to direct the heat to where you most want it. My 1800 has worked without problem for about 5 years now. |
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Sunbeam
Joined: 23 Feb 2012 Posts: 3990 City/Region: Out 'n' About
State or Province: Other
C-Dory Year: 2002
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: Sunbeam
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Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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Oh sure, bring up all my "second thought" concerns and back them with real-world experience
Seriously, I have thought of those things, and I appreciate your specific experience and thoughts. Thanks
It's hard to know how much I will boat when needing "more" heat. There are lots of times I want "some," because I like to go places in shoulder season when it is less crowded, but how often will I want more than that? Don't know at this point. I guess one could say then better buy the bigger heater 'cause you can always turn it down, but I like to keep it simple if possible, and too, the 1300 takes up a lot less space. I'm just thinking that the volume to heat on a 25 must be considerably more than a 22. Not that the "floor plan" of the main cabin is that much bigger, but there is so much more headroom, and that must really increase the volume (plus the opportunity for heat to go up above the sitting spaces).
Guess there is no way to know for sure, and no one right choice, but each person's input is really useful, so thanks for taking the time.
Sunbeam |
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Aurelia
Joined: 21 Aug 2009 Posts: 2333 City/Region: Gig Harbor
State or Province: WA
Photos: Aurelia
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Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:00 am Post subject: |
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The Wallas rep at the show told me a way to do it but I found a better way.
We wanted a simple way to direct the air around the boat a little better. I used 3in abs pipe fittings and some rubberized high temp electrical tape to snug the slip joint from the heater to pipe junction. I added a 5 inch straight pipe and have two slip fittings that I can swap between.
I got one fitting at 90 degrees to direct air into the cockpit directly and another coupler to use the standard louvered end most of the time. Works slick and looks fine. The flexpipe could have worked but it would have been flimsy.
Greg _________________ Greg, Cindie & Aven
Gig Harbor
Aurelia - 25 Cruiser sold 2012
Ari - 19 Cruiser sold 2023
currently exploring with "Lia", 17 ft Bullfrog Supersport Pilothouse |
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hardee
Joined: 30 Oct 2006 Posts: 12633 City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
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Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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I spent some time at the SBS talking to the Wallas rep there. the 1300 is very appealing to me too, and I didn't get anything about the "end of life" coming for it. Hmmm. Maybe he just did want to get into that. I would consider it as my first choice heater from what I know about it, and my preference would be for an install under the sink, mounted to the forward cabinet wall... Might mean I'd have to move some other stuff... now wouldn't that be a surprise. ... boat projects.
Harvey
SleepyC
_________________ Though in our sleep we are not conscious of our activity or surroundings, we should not, in our wakefulness, be unconscious of our sleep. |
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Aurelia
Joined: 21 Aug 2009 Posts: 2333 City/Region: Gig Harbor
State or Province: WA
Photos: Aurelia
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Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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We ended up having some overheat shutdowns early this summer coincidentally or not, after Aven decided to turn the unit off by throwing the switch a few times. Anyway, we brought it to Scan Marine where they tested under warranty and said it was basically in spec but said they did a little tuning anyway for good measure. I re-installed and we ran it a few times even during the warm summer and still had some overheat shutdowns but it did run a few times without the over heat. Note: when the unit overheats, it throws a little switch near the air outlet and goes into shutdown mode only leaving us with about 10 minutes of operating time before it starts the shutdown and cool off running period. We press the little switch to reset and its ready for another try. So we could always cycle the unit again and again for an additional 10 minutes of heat in the worst case.
Well I didn't really make any changes, but this weekend (cooler weather maybe?) we ran it for about 8 hours without any problems so maybe the problem has gone away. We will report back if it comes back.
Another suggestion from another brat was to put a small piece of metal tape over the sensor/switch to just dampen the heating and lessen the sensitivity. I was keeping that in reserve and may still use that trick if the problem returns.
We still love the relative simplicity of this unit and the heat it puts out is always appreciated and even enjoyed.
Greg |
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MikeR
Joined: 21 Apr 2013 Posts: 475 City/Region: Mill Creek
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2016
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: MikeR
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Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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Thought I'd add my installation and initial opinions on the Wallas 1300dt...
Last spring, Greg and Cindie gave me a demo of their 1300 on a crisp evening at Jones island. The way it heated up the entire cabin of their 19, PLUS their large camperback enclosure convinced me it was exactly what I was looking for. So, this Thursday I finally made the call to Scan Marine to place the order. The kit arrived on Friday and I installed it on Saturday.
It took about 2 hours just sitting in the boat trying to decide where to put it, while reviewing the great ideas in this thread and others, along with the installation manual. There are several design constraints, such as the tank must be below the heater, the intake/exhaust duct can't be longer than 3', and the warm air duct, if used, can't be longer than 3'. Also, the exhaust/intake must be at least 1' above waterline, and behind the widest part of the boat (this according to Scan Marine, although I didn't see any mention of this in the manual).
Confounding those restrictions was my preference to have it enclosed and out of the way, so as not to take up counter space (as in the case of a countertop installation) or legroom (in the case of an under-table installation). Additionally, I found myself really reluctant to drill unnecessary holes into the hull, countertop, fiberglass cabinet, or any other finished/exterior fiberglass area.
So the compromise I decided on was to mount it to the drawer frame under the galley counter and to not use the air duct (it was not recommended by Scan Marine for this model anyway), and this just requires the rightside cabinet door be left open while in use, which isn't an issue for me. My other thought with this location is that if I decide to relocate it down the road and use the air duct, it wouldn't be a big deal to do that.
After deciding on the location, it took about 4 hours for the physical install, mounting the heater, cutting and installing the thru-hull, cutting the intake and exhaust ducting to proper length, installing the tank. Then it took about 2 more hours to install /route the 12v wiring, fuse, and the optional remote switch.
Up until now, my winter boating has been restricted to marinas where I can plug in and use a 1500W ceramic heater. That heater has 2 settings 750W and 1500W, and I usually run it at the low setting and occasionally bump it up to the high setting for maybe up to an hour before I get too hot even in the coldest weather (about 32 degrees F is my boating limit)...
After running the Wallas for about 4 hours Saturday night, a cold night in the low 30s, I would say that it is somewhere in between the low and high setting of my ceramic heater, which is perfect! Although I don't have a thermometer yet, I would guess that it maintained around 70 degrees in the cabin. It is also much quieter than the electric heater. On the return trip Sunday morning I ran the Wallas, and it was so nice to finally have a warm cabin while cruising, and without fogging in the rain and snow. Back at the marina, it was also nice to be able to turn on the heat while cleaning up the boat on the workstand, without having to get out the extension cord and electric heater.
A couple of photos of the unit and the optional remote switch.
There are a few more photos in this album:
http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?set_albumName=album2746&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php _________________ 22' C-Dory Cruiser (2016)
16' C-Dory Angler (1989)
10' C-Dory Row Boat (1995) |
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Aurelia
Joined: 21 Aug 2009 Posts: 2333 City/Region: Gig Harbor
State or Province: WA
Photos: Aurelia
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Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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We just ran ours for a weekend and I also used it while playing with the active captain app in the boatshed. Nice to have heat anytime at the flip of a switch.
If you end up leaving your heater in the current location, you could always cut a nice hole in the door and pull off the grill of the heater to just let out the heat. Or a short duct extension just to meet up with the hole in the door when closed.
Or you could cut you door in two lengthwise to make it open bi-fold like and allow with air exchange without blocking the walkway. Or.... remove all or part of it, add a bit of nonslip, and make a nice cutting board. It would be easy enough to get a fresh door from the factory to have on hand as a replacement.
Greg |
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MikeR
Joined: 21 Apr 2013 Posts: 475 City/Region: Mill Creek
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2016
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: MikeR
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Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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Just a quick update on my Wallas 1300 install described above, a new issue, and resolution / lesson-learned that may be worth documenting here for others installing this unit (not sure if it’s exclusive to the 1300 or may also be applicable to other models).
Exactly one month in I’ve happily run the 1300 for a total of about 5 times, with outside temps ranging from mid 30s to mid 40s, and each time it’s done a wonderful job of heating the cabin of the 22, even with the door open as I often prefer to run, with camperback full enclosure all buttoned up.
Monday on the return trip from Friday Harbor, with cabin door closed I noticed it getting a bit chilly inside, reached back and felt the heat coming out of the Wallas was luke warm. I shut it down for a while, switched batteries thinking maybe low voltage, then restarted but this time it was just blowing cold air like a $1500 fan. Next thought was the overtemp shutoff had tripped, but that was not the problem either. The other issue now occurring was the CO alarm in the cabin was going off (!). So I shut it down again and while still on the water I called Scan Marine, spoke to the service tech and after a few questions suggested bringing the whole thing in.
Tuesday I took it into the shop with plans of leaving it there for a repair. However the instant I walked in the door it was apparent to them what the problem was. The kerosene return line (the black tube in the photos above) was too long causing kerosene to back up inside the heater. This tube should be cut off immediately below the cap on the tank, whereas mine went straight down to the bottom of the tank. The installation instructions were not very clear in this regard, and apparently Scan recently received a bulletin from Wallas about cutting this tube as short as possible (even shorter than what they had previously thought to be necessary), because it has caused fouling in many units over the years.
We fired it up on the workbench, now with the shortened return line, and once again it was working as before, blowing out nice warm air. Hopefully that’s all it was…I know for many this example just confirms a distrust for Wallas, and maybe I’m not far behind after this experience. But I remain hopeful because it was my bad on the install, and I really like the quietness, simplicity, low fuel burn, and low amp draw of this heater compared to some of the others.
Finally, it’s worth repeating…if you don’t already have a CO detector in your boat, by all means get one, especially if you are sleeping aboard with a fossil fuel heater running! The thought of this failure occurring in the middle of the night, with no CO detector, was a little unsettling. I know most Brats already have CO alarms, but I also know some others who don’t!
-Mike |
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olsurfdog
Joined: 13 Nov 2009 Posts: 179 City/Region: Carmel Valley
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 1989
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Summer
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Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:20 am Post subject: |
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Mike,
Thanks for the reminder about the CO detector. Nice install--especially like the remote that can be reached from the bunk!! Makes getting up on a cold morning much easier! _________________ Michael
______
I am where I am
Because I was where I was |
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CaptMac
Joined: 01 Mar 2005 Posts: 225 City/Region: Amelia Island / Jacksonville
State or Province: FL
Photos: Blue Manatee
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Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:11 am Post subject: cost of wallis 1300 |
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im sure ive overlooked it but where can the wallis 1300 be found and for how much? Thanks. _________________ Capt Mac Daniel
Flounder Gigging Charters
Amelia Island, Florida 32034
http://www.floundergigging.com
Flounder Gigging Charters
"The Adventure of a Night-time"
904-556-0230 Cell/Text |
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Aurelia
Joined: 21 Aug 2009 Posts: 2333 City/Region: Gig Harbor
State or Province: WA
Photos: Aurelia
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Bucky
Joined: 21 Sep 2008 Posts: 23 City/Region: Lakebay
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2002
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Greeniron
Photos: Greeniron
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Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:54 pm Post subject: Heat |
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I installed a Wallas 1300 under the sink on my 22'. I really liked it. I installed about 3 feet of duct to a vent on the floor, but after 15 min. or so, it would self shut off. too much back pressure and heat. I then ran a short duct to the vent installed just above the cabinet door, about waist high, and enjoyed some 12 years of trouble free service. It was still working when I sold that boat last October.
At the suggestion of Scan Marine, I used only Klean Heat for fuel.
I also installed a CO detector, and on overnight winter crab trips had run the heater 30 hours straight. Was nice to get up and see thick frost all over the outside of the boat, and to be warm and dry in the cabin. Now i did haft to have a sweat shirt and wool sox on, but 50 - 55 degrees in the cabin wile it was 30 outside was luxury to me. An added bonus with it installed under the sink, was the first 3 pumps of water to the sink was warm!
I got mine at the Seattle Boat Show, where Scan has a boat show price, save a little $$. |
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