Cost of Full Camperback

designbug · Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 4:26 pm Post subject: Cost of Full Camperback

I'm thinking about adding a full camperback to my CD25 to increase the usable space and boating season. Can anyone give me a rough estimate of what it would cost?

Thanks, Dick

thataway · Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 5:36 pm Post subject:

I am not at home so I don't have the receipts--but my best recollection was that the "Factory" canvas was about $2500 for the 25. I got that because they could supply it in about a week. My local canvas worker who did the Tom Cat-for about $4100 was busy, and it was going to be a month. If I had to do it over, I would have gone with my local canvas guy, who is very good. The seams were all finished, a Tenera Gortex thread was used so that the seams will last much longer. The fit and finish was far better. The frame was 1" SS tubing,4 bows and self supporting, with a panel which would zipper out between the first bow and the cabin awning rail VS 3/4" aluminum, with 3 bows, and not self supporting. If custom made you will get a better product and what you want.

Having said this, the "factory" for the 22, I currently have, is better made than the one I had made for the 25. I suspect that different technicians made the different camper backs, or the person who ordered the 22 had specified better components.

Look at photos and backs in person. Things I want on the 25, is full SS tubing support fore and aft. This way you can use the forward support as a railing, and full zipper out of the first panel, either part way, or fully, which makes it easier to get in and out--the zipper should be able to be used from the outside, and zipp from outside of the boat to the center.

In the back, I feel that probably taking the full camper back to the transom. This gives more room in the cockpit. I like as much clear in the back--the amount of windows on the side are optional--I happen to like less, so you have more privacy from dock walkers. I also like the fine mesh insect screen, with zip out clear vinyl, and a way to secure the clear panels on the top up under the bimni. I also like to use high quality clear vinyl. Clean vinyls are available from 20 to 40 Mil.--and Strataglass or EZ 2 CY which are higher quality vinyl are preferred--but more expensive. A good enclosure will last 10 or more years even if up full time. If you take the enclosure down, it will last longer.

potter water · Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 6:17 pm Post subject:

1800 bucks for stainless and sunbrellas for Still C-razy, Dory 22. All custom made. Lots of zippers and flexibility as to how I want to configure it.

ghone · Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:10 pm Post subject:

I did mine with Bimini first and add on side and back panels later. Same guy did the whole thing. All custom to our specs. 1" ss tubing and fittings on quick release bases. About $3,300 all told. I did as Bob suggests. Lots of clear in back windows and less in sides.
This is for a 22 so 25 may be a bit more. Great addition to the boat
George

Aurelia · Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:15 pm Post subject:

We spent 3500 on a nice full unit for our 25 back in late 2009. I think the same thing at today's rates around here would be over 4K.

The recent quote we are pursuing for a full custom/complex unit using top shelf materials for the 19 angler is approaching 4k as well.

potter water · Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:26 pm Post subject:

I can't imagine getting by on the 22 or 25 without full camper back if a person is doing any cruising. I would put the camper back above electronics and a kicker in priority. When we close in the camper back, we've got a lot of room with privacy on the boat. I initially financed my boat for about 6 months, then paid it off. I put the camper back into the financing because I knew if I didn't get it at the outset, I probably wouldn't get it later.

An excellent investment and I'm sure that a boat with a good camper back fetches at least that investment back on re-sale, and I suspect it contributes even more than its original cost on boat re-sale.

Discovery · Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:14 am Post subject:

I think the camper back for the TomCat was about $3500 in 2010. Similar size as the CD 25. Stainless and sunbrella w/zip out vinyl sides and screen, from King Marine Canvas in Seattle. They did the factory canvas then.

journey on · Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:43 pm Post subject:

The factory camperback on the C-Dory has lasted 9 years (wow?) and is still doing well. I think King canvas did it, but don't bet on it. Wouldn't be without it, especially where it rains.

Good fit, seams haven't torn. The bimini part goes up before we launch and stays up until after we retrieve. I spray it with 3M waterproofing every year or so.

I use one of those snapper tools, which makes connecting those snaps possible.

Boris

designbug · Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 10:36 am Post subject:

Thanks for all your posts. I'm getting a few quotes so I'll let you know what happens.

Sea Angel · Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 5:39 pm Post subject:

Hi Dick;
For SEA ANGEL, a CD25, I had a camper back with 'glass' and screens panels fabricated locally. I later added two zippers to be sewn into the roof panel (one from each side towards the center)so I could reach the running light post and to move from the cockpit to the bow safely.

In 2007 the main unit cost abt $2100 and the zipper additions this past year cost $175. Those zippers were one of the smartest thing I did add for safety.

Good luck on your adventure to a new 'living space' aboard your CD25.

Art

designbug · Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 5:03 pm Post subject:

Just want to give an update. I received two quotes ranging from $5,000 to $5,400 for a full bimini and camperback. A little too high for me right now, I was hoping I could get something decent for around $3,500 - need to save a little more cash.

Thanks for all your input.

Dick

thataway · Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:17 am Post subject:

Do you already have a Bimini? You might consider asking King Canvas how much they charge for the standard "Factory" Camper back--and specify what you want. One issue is the shipping charge, and delivery for the framework and bows. Although I believe you can get a better job locally--fit to the boat--I would rather have one, maybe not quite as nice--than not have one at all…

If you have the Bimini--they a canvas worker can modify the Bimini to your specs, and then do what you want with the rest of the side and back. A camper back is not all that easy of a DIY project. But for $5,000, it might pay to learn the techniques-- next winter? For me the hardest part of a camper back is doing the vinyl --especially with the heavier such as Strato glass. One of my friends was a sailmaker by secondary profession (high school teacher primary), has very good professional grade sewing machines (Consew/Pfaff), and made a polycarbonate ( Makrolon AR-2 or GE Lexan MR-10 ) front window for a dodger for his sailboat. Basically ended up drilling small holes the the Polycarbonate for the thread to penetrate (Stitch rate was 4 to 5/inch. With modern coatings these "windows" were almost as good after a trip around the world and 5 years later when he sold the boat. I think the thickness either 60 to 80 mills.

I have read that polycarbonate (Lexan) can be thermo bonded, or some of the glues (either one or two part) to Acrylic fabric (Sunbrella). I built Lexan windows overlaid over the fiberglass, with a structural silicone adhesive on the Cal 46. A little of the adhesive accidentally got on a 5/16" 1x19 SS cable, and was still there 10 years later.

I suspect that this technique would work well with Sunbrella, using the correct adhesive. (Polycarbonate cannot be rolled up, so has to be kept flat) Stratoglass or EZ2CY is much easier to use--and even easier is 20 to 30 Mil off the shelf clear vinyl. If you sew the clear to sunbrella, then you put zippers in to hold the panels in place.

Will-C · Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:28 am Post subject: Cost of Full Camperback

Nothing against King Canvas but it looks like you are from the east coast and it seems to me that finding a more local canvas shop might be a better idea. We have a local guy who we go to for different things and have established a relationship. Sometimes strolling around a marina and asking boat owners about who they recommend might be informative.
D.D.

redbaronace · Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:33 am Post subject:

We too had a hard time when shopping for a camperback. We knew that we wanted one but when seeking bids, the prices were all over the place. We asked other owners of boats but found out their pockets must have been alot deeper than ours. One guy raved about how good and reasonable his canvas guy was and said that we could probably get one made for our boat for around 7-8k. Yikes

Finally we settled with a local marine welder / fabricator to build us a cantilevered partial cockpit cover. It was similar to the ones seen on this forum (Brazzo, etc) but not extending fully to the back. I had used this person for other welding projects so I knew his work was high quality. We opted for an aluminum frame with powdercoating. This was our way of having a permanently fixed top, yet leaving the back 2' of cockpit uncovered for fishing (setting the hook and netting the fish).

Since our welder is not a canvas person, we had to hire that out separately. The canvas guy we chose is a small company consisting of one person with 30 years experience. He came out to our location and patterned the canvas on the frame. We will have our canvas top installed this Wednesday. Once the top has been laced on, he will take new measurements (pattern) for the sides and build those pieces in phase 2.

Provided that all turns out well, we will have our camperback installed in time for the Friday Harbor gathering. While it was more work finding and dealing with 2 separate companies to make the frame and camperback, I believe we will have the look and functionality that we were after.

Cost will be under $3500 installed using sunbrella and strataglass.

Sea Wolf · Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 1:34 pm Post subject: