Jump start "battery" in a pocket

[thataway]

This product was touted in The Hull Truth, and I throw it out for discussion.

Here is the link: http://antigravitybatteries.com/microstart/

This is a lithium battery which is 5" x 1" x 2 7/8", and weight is 14 oz. The claim is that it will start any outboard, truck, even diesel, even with a flat battery:



This even includes a flashlight in the battery, with strobe light and "SOS". Sounds too good to be true. Allows any object which uses a USB port to recharge. It comes with battery clips, chargers for 12 and 110 mains voltage. The wires for the battery clips appear to be too small to carry much current. Claim of 200 to 400 amp output.

Some are saying they are carrying this rather than a jump start pack or spare battery.

As much as I have worked with batteries, electrical systems, etc--I find this hard to believe. I have a lithium ion battery pack for recharging my MAC and I phones, which is larger and heavier than this--and I cannot imagine it starting even a 25 hp outboard.

Amazon also has this product:
http://www.amazon.com/Antigravity-Batteries-XP-3-Micro-Start/dp/B00GT2FUB2

Comments? Anyone used this product?

[Sea Wolf]

Bob-

I can't see to get a definitive description of how it exactly works, but I imagine it can't really provide 200 amps instantaneous to start a car or boat. Probably needs to be connected for 5-20 or more minutes at 25 amps or so to basically re-charge the vehicle battery which then has the rechargded/accumulated ability to provide the necessary amps and voltage. This would account for the diminutive wiring size. Still a lot of questions remain……..

Joe.

[BrentB]

I agree and would like to see a dead battery removed and the gizmo installed to start a vehicle

on the flip side, I am ready to buy one and beats hauling my portable battery jump starter
see
http://www.harborfreight.com/12-volt-jump-start-and-power-supply-38391.html

This item recharges the battery and takes several minutes
and does not always work for me
I replaced 2 vehicle batteries this winter

thanks for posting

[thataway]

Here is a quote from the Nissan Xterra forum:

"I did two tests. The first was after the X had been sitting in the garage for two days and the garage temperature was about 40F. I disconnected the battery and connected the Micro-Start. The engine started as easily as if the regular battery had been connected. I started the engine three more times and it started easily each time.

The next test was done after two days of sitting, like the first test. This time I pulled the fuel pump fuse and let the engine crank for about 6 seconds. After replacing the fuse the engine started easily. I did three more starts with similar results. The battery has plenty of power for starting."

[Ray]

This is possible. I am an engineer and have been working with small lithiums for 10 years.

Lithium batteries are typically best for very high-output, short duration tasks. If you look at one of the batteries (AG801) on their web site you can see this. One of the battery sizes is 9Ah, but can produce 240 "cranking amps".

This is a discharge rating of nearly "27C" (standard measurement reference of how many times the capacity "C" (9Ah) can be pulled out at one time).

240A for 10 seconds is about 0.0027Ah (10/3600). So it would take a lot of short bursts before you deplete 9Ah worth of capacity. Also these large 20+C discharge rates are very hard on the battery. It is likely that you wouldn't get years of doing this several times a day. It is best suited for this emergency or infrequent use case.

I have watched the technology climb from 1C to 5C to 10C over the last few years. Some lithiums now are pushing 30 and 35C discharge rates. It all comes down to the chemistry and the stackup/reliability of the anode/cathode and dielectric separators.

LiPO4 chemistry is somewhat less energy dense than Lithium Polymer and some of the others, but is MUCH safer.

Also, for charging and discharging at high rates, lithium is typically not very happy below about 0-10degC or above 45C (temperature "C" this time).

Fun stuff to see evolving so fast!!!!

[captainkettel]

Watch the Youtube videos on the website. Looks pretty impressive. I wonder how many times it will take a re-charge and still function.
Here is the link: http://antigravitybatteries.com/microstart/

[hardee]

Hmmmmmmm...... I wonder if it would run my CPAP for a full night and how long it would take to recharge? Somewhere between 1-3 amps.

Harvey
SleepyC

[Sea Wolf]

(After watching the video of the motorcycle and car start demo)

Wow!

Hard to believe!

Makes lead/acid battery technology look like the stone age!

Too bad it can't take heavy duty recycling/abuse. Could replace 2-4 lead acid batteries at 130 to 280 pounds total with 25 lbs or so! (400 Ah/19 Ah) x 14 oz/ Li battery). Lightens up the boat a bit!

Slightly exaggerated TV ad scenario:
Another Blackout/grid failure in NYC! You're trapped in an elevator, but take your Anti-Gravity battery pack out of your briefcase, connect it to the elevator, and it powers you and other passenger back safely to the lobby. Saved again by your A-G Battery Pack! Beautiful young girl (other passenger) kisses you, her hero! (But did you really want to be rescued?)

Joe.

[Captains Cat]

There are two (or more) on Amazon for less than $100 too. Hmmmm...

Beginning to look like dehydrated water!

Charlie

[BrentB]

All

Is there a good review of current battery technology or a free market research (or analysis) available?

something like
http://www.marketresearch.com/Life-Sciences-c1594/Diagnostics-c1125/Microbiology-Virology-c1538/
but these are not free and sometimes someone throws me a bone (free copy) . I find them excellent reading material
Informative, up to date and spot on

thanks

[Ray]

[thataway]

Joe's

[Arend]

70 C batteries are now available.
They are truly amazing.
http://www.thunderpowerrc.com/Products/3850-mAh_3/TP3850-3SPF70 this battery will easily give 200 amps at 12.6V
I use this type in my RC model pylon racer ad RC electric gliders.
These have extreme high power to weight ratio.
If they are stored at 50% of full charge they keep for many years.
Charge them to full when you need them, and discharge them to
50% again when you store them for prolonged periods.

[lloyds]

I was just down at my favorite battery store and one of the techs has one. It comes in a case about the size of one for a cd player, with all the cords and alligator clips. He hooked it up to a honda pilot that had a completely dead battery and it started right up. If I hadn't seen it I wouldn't have believed it. He bought his for $165 from the Mac Tool guy but I am sure they are cheaper on the internet. Amazing stuff.

[ssobol]

One thing to keep in mind is that these batteries have a very high energy density and can give it up pretty fast. If the battery malfunctions (shorts) you can end up with an explosion and a fire. Lithium burns at high temperature and any electrolyte that escapes the battery is highly flammable. A water based extinguisher will make things worse. Halon has no effect.

There are many instances of the relatively small batteries used in RC cars and planes burning up cars and houses because of damaged cells overheating. You are also not allowed to have lithium batteries (e.g. laptop batteries) in your checked luggage on airplanes in case there is an issue. You can have them in the cabin because if there is a problem a) an attempt can be made to contain the damage and b) at least the crew will know what is going on and take appropriate action (e.g. land ASAP). Aircraft have been lost due to lithium battery fires.

Lead acid batteries can also have issues. However, generally speaking a lead acid battery is not as energy dense as a lithium battery and is much more robustly constructed.

On the 787 Boeing chose lithium batteries because the energy density saved weight. However, after the mods that were required to the airplane after the battery fires, the battery installation on the 787 now weighs the same (or more) than it would have if they used common NiCad aircraft batteries in the first place.