Big water high wind.

[hump5776]

I scared myself this weekend in my 2101 seaswirl striper in the north channel of lake huron. I entered the north channel from drummond island and ended up having to return 12 miles in 4-5 waves with occasional 6's.
I had my plexi snapped from the windshield to the bimini and I was getting so much water over the bow I could not even see( no wiper).
For a few minute in the 5-6' waves I worried we would not make it back and the water was about 50 degrees so bad judgement by me for the whole situation. Anyway wind steadied at about 30 knots and we maintained headway for about an hr and made it back to more sheltered waters. I have considered a c-dory 22 for some time, does anyone think that a c-dory would have handled this better, worse?? I made a big mistake going into this situation and I know a boat is only a good as the driver and I know realize how wet I am behind the ears still. I am curious if the 22 C-dory can handle this kind of water and does being in a pilot house improve your ability to cope with a near emrgency like I was in??
Does the dory have wipers to help watch the seas when taking spray over the bow?? Any feedback is appreciated. It seems like a dory sits so low in water that these conditions may seem even more intimidating than my boat.

[KenMcC]

Hi, Hump,

Seems like some pretty rough stuff. Was your run back with or against the weather?

C-Dorys are very lightweight, relatively flat bottomed boats that don't do very well at high speeds in rough water. Pretty seaworthy, but their skippers know their limitations.

When you go out and get surprised at what you are in, a little more homework is suggested.

C-Dorys are really great, seaworthy boats. And their old salty lines take us back to an era where real boats were appreciated, along with an appreciation for seamanship.

Enjoy!

Ken

[Luna C]

Did that for 3 hours crossing the Straight of Georgia between Vancouver Is. and the BC coast. Allot of work, but the boat handled it well. My speed was between 9 and 12 knots. It all comes down to the distance between wave crests - some of those smaller, shallower bodies of water can have some nasty chop. You might just have to get one of those new Tom Cats - I wonder how they'd handle in five footers!?!

[Not For Hire]

If you were out on Sunday no pleasure craft should have been out. There were waterspouts on Lake Michigan later in the day with huge waves in the open lake. I have had my 22 Cruiser for four months and have experienced some rough waters. Our lakes don't have the ocean swells but we do have steep waves of short frequency and very confused seas (I fit right in). The 22 is not "better" in those seas than your present boat and your present boat will run faster and more comfortably in a two foot chop than the 22 cruiser. However, in the 22 you can be warm and dry, have better visibility (with hand or electric wipers), not much green water will find its way to the cockpit even when you take seas over the bow, you can slow way down and still have good steerage AND if you make for your closest bolt hole (safe harbor) you can comfortably wait out 24 or 48 hours of weather. Fatigue is a real danger in conditions like you describe, the exhilieration doesn't last long. All boats are compromises. If you are only going to do the Great Lakes look for something a little bigger and heavier. If you want to explore some inland lakes and rivers and systems from time to time, trailer easily, and overnight well, and still fish and cruise the big lakes more than 1/2 of the time then you might choose the 22 as I did.

In the USCGA we had rules about when we could patrol. The station would not let us patrol in waves that I might fish in or cruise in if not on partrol. Some times we would not report the sea conditions until our patrol was well started. The regular coasties, of course, venture out in all kinds of conditions living up to their old saying "You have to go out, you don't have to come back." The reasons they would tell us for not allowing patrols was that they had "younger bodies and metal hulls." Can't argue that one.

Regards, Mark

[MOOSE]

We did 12 miles against seas such as you describe off Lake Superior's north shore last summer, though the wind was no longer building and so whitecapping was perhaps less than you experienced. While somewhat harrowing in my book, I'm not sure we even turned the wipers on. C-Dories don't really sit low in the water, in fact, just the opposite. They ride like a cork. The flat-bottomed hull is why they can plane at low speeds. A v-hull is either wallowing or moving way too fast in seas such as you experienced. Given monetary constraints, there's no other boat I'd rather be in.
Al

[CatyMae n Steve]

If it's a white-knuckled ride, we shouldn't be out there ... just my .02 worth

My ex father-in-law was a NYC bus driver...and his driving techniques didn't change when he got into a car -- I rode with him ONCE

I rode in a 26' Seaswirl across the CR bar ONCE when we shouldn't have -- boats aren't meant to be airborn!

[hump5776]

Thanks for the responses everyone. You all have good input. I was out on sunday (bad weather) and of course the seas were short and steep. Typical great lakes. I think some of my biggest problem handling the boat came from lack of visibility and control into the headsea. I think I will treat my glass with rain-x today to see if that helps next time they are breaking over until I install wipers. In that weather I was only making maybe 10 knots of speed at a higher power setting to assist with my steerage and I think that helped. Luna C mentioned the new TC catamaran and I am sure that can handle some seas but to much $$. I owned a small cat for a year and handled awesome but had no space for storage or getting out of the wind (center console). A couple of reasons I am drawn the 22 Dory are light trailer weight and low fuel burn in todays gas prices. I can do trawler speeds, I just want something that will get me home with more confidence than I had last weekend.

[Helen O]

Some points to consider:

1. When cresting a wave, a V-hull will dive deeper into the next wave, thus allowing the water to come up higher on the windshield and sides. The impact in the trough will be softer, because you dive deeper.

2. A flat bottom hull does float more like a cork. The dynamics of it won't allow it to dive as deep, thus you don't need the higher sides that you do on a v-hull. There will be more of an impact at the bottom of the trough though.

3. V-hulls rock from side to side more than a flat bottom does. You can walk around in a 48 inch flat bottom boat, don't even think of trying that with a like sized v-bottom. (rolly-polly)

4. Having a v-hull is like having a small keel under the boat, it's going to try to keep the boat going in the direction of the keel, and will resist changing direction somewhat. A flat bottom is more responsive to direction change at slow speeds.

5. Because of this "keeling effect" and "rolly polliness" when you get broadside in big waves, the v-hull is more likely to dig in and roll over. A flat bottom will be more prone to slide. This is just one reason you don't see v-bottomed surf boards.


So here's the deal when it gets really, really, really ugly (life threatening) out on the water:

A. Slow down to about 4-5 mph, you need to keep enough speed to maintain control of the boat. If you go faster you'll be launching yourself farther out into air on the crest of the waves. Because of the better low speed handling of a flat bottom hull -- Advantage C-Dory.

B. All waves are not created equal. If you need to turn around, watch for a lesser series of waves. Throttle up and make the turn quickly.

C. Following seas is like surfing. Hopefully you will have your weight to the rear, you don't want the nose of your boat to dig into the wave in front of you. (Hanging ten is a very difficult feat). Get in the trough of the wave and stay there.


The bottom line: If you're in life threatening seas in a flat bottomed boat, you're going to get pounded, but you're probably going to live to tell about it.