Kicker engine

[colbysmith]

Some more of my thoughts about the kicker, now that I've had it on for most of our midwest season, and have done a lot of boating this summer. I've never had a kicker before, and on my previous boat, a Searay 268 Sundancer with a single screw 454 and Alpha outdrive, I had no worries about going 6-10 miles off shore. However, I was also more comfortable working on a car like engine than an outboard. (IOW, with that boat it wasn't so much engine dependability as operator confidence.) I did do some salmon fishing last week, and using the kicker was nice. But I was just trolling...no opportunity to work with the kicker while pulling in fish. I've also spent some time in no wake zones on a local river between lakes. Using both it's own tiller, and also connecting it to the main and driving from the helm. It gets very sore sitting on the back of the motor well, not to mention obstruction of vision form back there. Driving from the front without remote controls requires running to the back to throttle down or up. Only once did I use the kicker in what I would consider a situation it came in handy, and even then, I could probably have got by with out it. In that situation, on the Mississippi after just leaving the marina and entering the channel, the main cut out. (I had forgot to turn on the fuel valve. My kicker has it's own fuel supply, so it started right up and I used it back to the dock, located my problem and pressed on.) Yes, there is a peace of mind of knowing I have that kicker. But only now because I have it. As I build more confidence and experience with my main outboard, the kicker equation is probably decreasing. I also have tow insurance, and don't go more than 10 miles from land.... in areas where help is usually available. Now as for trolling.... it's not done often, and probably doesn't justify the cost of the kicker. Nor do I have a dinghy. Which gets to how I think I'll sum all this up. The kicker is additional weight on the back of my boat that also requires some maintenance. Like anything mechanical, if you don't use it, it will become less dependable. If you have the money and want a kicker, get one. If you'd rather not spend the money on a kicker, and don't go anywhere completely alone, you probably don't need one. After all, don't most of us buy these boats because they are so simple? BTW, the single cylinder 4-stroke kicker really does vibrate and make a lot more noise than the idling 115hp 4-stroke. You can get a larger kicker, but at added cost. Colby

[pat.jack]

Bob, Colby,

Thanks for the additional thoughts. I was thinking I could add controls for the kicker at the helm, but that sounds like it may not be possible-or add a lot of cost and complications to the boat. I definitely agree with the thoughts about keeping things simple.

To your point Bob-it is pretty amazing how little boat traffic is on the Erie Canal, at least in the areas where we have boated. The canal has been getting a bit of coverage in the Rochester newspapers due to the cost of operating it, and the fact it does not have a lot of traffic. They have cut the hours of operation to keep costs down-and cut staff. Hopefully it will continue operation and not degrade further. Having said that, maneuvering at docks with the kicker sounds like it could be a challenge. Also, the mechanic at 'Saeger' Marine shared the same thought you did-he said a 4 cycle outboard that is well maintained should last well over 3,000 hours. He mentioned working on Marine police boats that had loads of hours and were pretty abused with lots of idle time on them, still holding up well.

Based on what I've heard, I think I'll put this on the 'back burner' for now. I can now see why many of the boats were rigged with (2) 40's or 50's-that would eliminate this issue entirely, as well as provide other advantages--but I am not going anywhere near that!! Thanks again for helping me sort this out.
Regards,
Jack Howell

[thataway]

Colby, I have had a few I/O, and in some ways considered them more of a problem to work on then an outboard. A lot of this had to do with the problem of getting to items like the starter or water pump and changing them---I found the prop of an outboard easier to work on: back up to a dock, the beach or put the dinghy in the water.

Controls can be put on kickers-but it is a space problem at the main helm which I personally decided not to deal with. If you have two motors of the same brand, one might consider a dual control binnacle, and use the outboard control for the kicker.

I have been so "unconcerned" that I have a kicker bracket sitting in my garage. I always carry the dinghy motor, so I can throw it on the transom if I really had to; although it would be better to have the motor on the bracket. I am working on a new post, which deals with the loss of a life and loss of a boat--where a "kicker" type of arrangement might have changed the outcome.

[colbysmith]

It'll be interesting to read that post Bob. I'm sure many arguments can be made for twins or kickers...heck they already have, and that sort of lead me to the purchase of my kicker. However there are a lot of single screw boats out there, even commercially, doing just fine. In the end I still believe it comes down to the confidence and choice of the skipper. Colby

[anchorout]

I just mounted a 6hp Suzuki kicker to backup my 90hp Suzuki. I used a Mini Jacker to mount over the trim tabs, and a Cabellas steering link between the motors to steer. My decision was based on the many pictures and comments in the forum. Anyone who has the patience to view each of the pics in the Picture section will find a treasure of what works, what doesn't work, what looks nice and, yes, some peculiar devices that leave one wondering.

[C-Nile]

Necessity of Having Auxilliary Power
Even though our main engines are more reliable today over the past, they do occasionally fail. It could be a broken or loose wire in a wiring harness, failure of a computer circuit, failure of a battery, thermostat, water pump -- just about anything. Your mechanic could have screwed up. You could pick up bad fuel, which could really ruin your day. You could hit a submerged rock or other object. You could accidentally wander into an area where you could no longer use your main engine.

So if one subscribes to Murphy's Law, which I do, one could encounter an engine failure at the worst possible time and at the worst possible place. Yet we hear a chorus of salespeople who say that engines are so reliable that one does not need an auxiliary. That's utter nonsense. An auxiliary is a safety device. Why do boating regulations mandate that we have life preservers, flares and fire extinguishers on our boats when the vast majority of us will never need these life saving devices? The answer is that Murphy's Law happens all the time to somebody, and an auxiliary motor is another safety device that is needed if Murphy hits you.

Don't assume that if you encounter an engine failure that you will be able to diagnose and and fix the problem on the water; you may, but if Murphy's Law hits, you may not be that lucky, no matter how handy you are.

This is an area where I have had a great deal of first hand experience in the course of five years:

1) My first boat had a new engine which sustained 5 failures due to a wiring harness issue that went undiagnosed. I got a kicker after the first failure, and it got me home every time. (Incidentally, two of those failures happened at dangerous locations.)

2) Once the wiring harness was fixed, I traveled into two gunkholes with only a few inches of water under the hull. It was too shallow to operate the main engine, but the kicker got us out.

3) A short while later, I was in my brother-in-law's 26' Seaswirl. It had a diesel I/o with counter rotating props. His engine failed as he rounded a narrow rocky corner of the channel. The failure was caused by a faulty computer that ignored console input. It's not like the old days that when you go from neutral to reverse, there was a direct linkage from the engine level to the engine. His boat was a "fly by wire" design, and he had no kicker.

4) I recently (July, 2013) ran over rocks , which took out by lower unit. Yeah, it was boneheaded, but guess what? -- I lowered my auxiliary motor into the water, and we traveled twenty miles back home in a little less then 3 hours.

On Using the Auxiliary Motor
While underway with the kicker, I found that with our 22 foot boat, the main engine works excellently as a rudder such that I don't need any linkage rod. I just lash the kicker in place, set power to full, and proceed along at hull speed. The autopilot works, too, on the main engine to control the rudder movements. On our Marinaut, the splashwell makes a convenient and comfortable spot in which to sit and operate the kicker like one would operate a dinghy motor. I operate the kicker at the stern when precise maneurvering is required.

As for using a kicker to save the main engine -- 5 to 6 mph is slow, but if you are going to do that, I would get a minimum 8 HP kicker, and approximately 10 HP is preferred. If one's boat is 4,500 pounds, one would need 9 HP to run the boat at hull speed. I know there are many factors involved in making a truly precise calculation, which is why I use that simple rule of thumb: one HP for every 500 pounds of weight. A smaller motor will work, but if you need it in an emergency, Murphy's Law has a good chance to cause you to have a need to travel against a current or strong headwind. In that case, it is best to have an appropriately sized auxiliary.

Rich

[colbysmith]

Hi Rich,
I hear you. But is one back up enuf then? How about 2 or 3? Again, I go with the idea one really needs to consider where they are boating and to what length they want to go with backups. Most of us boat in areas that have many others around us. That in itself is a very good backup! How about boating solo? I wear a life vest when salmon trolling by myself. But should I tie a line on myself in case I fall overboard? Just a little morning sarcasm.

[Sea Wolf]

I think it all depends on the degree of risk involved.

Witness this sailboat racing accident that cost one life that we powerboaters and fishermen can all learn/extrapolate from: From Scuttlebutt #3916:

Uncontrollable Urge: The Islands Race Accident

The 2013 Islands Race, held off the coast of Southern California, was marred on Friday, March 8 by a sailing accident aboard Uncontrollable Urge, a Columbia Carbon 32, that resulted in the death of a crew. Here is a report provided by four of the surviving crew: James Gilmore, Michael Skillicorn, Doug Pajak, and Ryan Georgianna…

At approximately 9:26pm on March 8, 2013 the rudder on the sailboat Uncontrollable Urge broke off during a storm off San Clemente Island in southern California. Two and one half-hours later, the boat was aground on the lee shore of San Clemente Island. Events during the two and a half-hour ordeal resulted in the loss of our friend and crew member, Craig Williams.

Uncontrollable Urge was a new boat and still being put through its paces. The Islands Race was being used as a qualifier for longer offshore races, Transpac 2013 in particular. Although the boat was performing well in our division, we were not racing particularly hard as our purpose was to assess the functionality of the various systems on the boat in offshore conditions.

Uncontrollable Urge was one of the farthest outside boats of the fleet while rounding San Clemente Island (appx 2nm) with mixed waves of height to 10 feet and winds of 25+ knots gusting. Immediately after loss of steerage the skipper called the USCG to inform them of our situation and to ask for assistance in arranging a commercial tow with our contracted towing service. The skipper, believing there was more time available due to SOG readings of 0 to 0.2kt, and that commercial towing would be readily available, initially declined assistance from fellow racers due to the dangerous conditions.

Throughout the incident, Uncontrollable Urge was in constant radio contact with the USCG. The crew began building and deploying different means of steerage (two emergency rudders, drogues, warps and motoring), but with none of these working and a tow not available for 20 hours, the USCG launched a rescue. A call for help to all boats went out, but by then the fleet had sailed past the island.

The boat grounded, and was rolled by a large breaking wave to starboard: two crew members thrown overboard were able to swim ashore; two other crew members went overboard but were trapped in their tethers; and two crew members remained on board. The tethered crew members either released themselves or were eventually cut free. The two crew members aboard rode the boat in and then swam ashore.

All six crew were wearing Type V inflatable lifejackets (some including thigh straps), and all properly inflated. While swimming ashore five of the six-lifejacket bladders pulled over the heads of the crew in the heavy surf (including those wearing thigh straps). One crew member found Craig with his lifejacket over his head, floating face-down and gave him CPR, but was unable to revive him. A helicopter from the USCG located the crew on the island and winched the remaining crew to safety before recovering Craig’s body.

We have worked with investigation teams to understand the causes of the accident that led to the death of our friend and crewmate, Craig Williams. The survivors of this accident believe there are immediate actions that can be taken by fellow sailors should they find themselves in a similar situation, however some of these may not be found within reports or are not easy to discern.

In specific, we believe that:

1) Always carry a proper emergency rudder offshore regardless of conditions or race rules. Your emergency rudder should be of equal or greater durability than your primary rudder. The design of the rudder system should be one that can be quickly placed into service even in the most severe conditions. Relying on towing from either commercial or from fellow boats is not dependable or could be unsafe to all parties.

2) Sailors need to modify their communications protocol with the USCG. In specific, they should consider having a current copy of the USCG Decision Matrix next to their VHF station. This helps clarify meanings and intents. As they walk through the matrix with the USCG, sailors needing assistance should ask the ETA of all assets responding. See USCG SAR in Appendix 1.

3) When upon a lee-shore and an accident occurs that causes loss of control of the boat, there is very little time available to make decisions. The first decision needs to be getting rescue assets in motion- regardless of whether crew or authorities believe they are in immediate danger. Boats that may not be capable of performing the rescue may still be able to provide other assistance such as radio communication and coordination. A boat that loses steerage on a lee-shore should be considered in immediate danger by both the crew and authorities- even if the boat still has the ability to anchor.

4) Sailors should be cautious regarding SOG readings while drifting.

5) It is our experience that the auto-inflating PFD’s worn by our crew were not adequate in these rough conditions. Sailors should be aware that the force of wave action can pull the bladder away from the harness and over your head, even if thigh straps are worn. If forced to abandon their vessel, sailors should consider taking off their auto-inflating PFD’s and put on an offshore Type 1 lifejacket. If possible, leave the vessel with some type of additional floatation.

6) Sailors need to understand the risks of putting fellow sailors in jeopardy when determining rescue options. Rescue attempts can easily go awry for both the accident victims and the best-intended would-be rescuers. Techniques need to be tested and be up to date with changes in technology so that both sailors and rescuers are not led to poor decisions based on speculation.

7) Not utilizing offsets in offshore island rounding marks is dangerous to the racing community and puts rescuers such as the USCG in danger. Offsets would likely have prevented the Low Speed Chase fatalities, may have helped the Aegean enter marks further from North Coronado Island, and would have added precious rescue hours to the Uncontrollable Urge incident. Had Uncontrollable Urge been further from shore physical assistance from another racing vessel could have been less dangerous. The racing community already deals with exclusion zones and the tracking technology is included in most offshore races, so this is easy to implement.

It is important to note that sailing bodies perform significant service to our racing community. However their activities require integration into the business industry of sailing and the coordination with governing bodies, so they may be influenced by certain legal considerations and courtesies. Our note to the sailing community is not bound by these considerations and has only one purpose, to convey the hard lessons that we learned. We are grateful every day to the USCG for the rescue service they perform.

- See more at: http://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/2013/09/04/uncontrollable-urge-islands-race-accident/?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Scuttlebutt+3916&utm_content=Scuttlebutt+3916+CID_f710685aaf618b4492f71baaceb306c4&utm_source=Email%20Newsletter&utm_term=read%20on#more

[thataway]

http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t=20482&highlight=

For my thoughts on the same race/sinking. I started last night, but fell asleep before finishing.

[C-Nile]

[Spike]

Pat.jack
I have a dual binnacle set up on my boat, and really like it. We use our kicker a lot, for fishing and just putzing around at slow speeds. I can control throttle and shift from the helm. I do have to hook up the tie bar to steer but that only takes a couple of seconds. We have two Yamahas, a 115 and a 9.9 high thrust. My only issue with the set up I have is that I went with a tillerless kicker and really cannot sit out on a sunny day and steer the boat. Really did not think of it when had the boat rigged.

[thataway]

Slightly off topic--as the part of the thread went. On a boat like the C Dory or sailboat--one should have two tethers. I usually have a long and short--so you are always hooked on. It is possible with a C Dory to put jack lines along both side decks--but that would make going forward more dangerous since the jack line would be under foot. One clips one tether at a point as they leave the cockpit, then the second to another point on top of the cabin-as they unclip the first point--then clip that first tether to a place on the foredeck, unclipping the one on the cabin top--that way you are never not clipped on.

[C-Nile]

[thataway]

The tethers I used were 4 feet and 6 feet or tubular nylon webbing material, with a spinaker type snap shackle on the person end, and snap hook or double action safety hook on the boat side. For a C Dory, I would rig eye bolts aft lip of the cabin top and another on the forward outboard eye brow. Between these two eye bolts I would attach Vinyl covered 3/16 vinyl covered life line cable. I probably would put a couple of fold down eye pads, as I have in the album for the side decks of several of my boats to hook into when on the deck. These have a 1,500 lb safe working load.

[C-Nile]

Thanks Dr. Bob!

Rich