Kicker engine

pat.jack · Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:13 am Post subject: Kicker engine

Hi Folks,
I'm not sure if this is the right spot to ask about a kicker to supplement my 90 hp Honda, but here goes.

After reading the recent discussions regarding the use of a kicker, I thought it would be worth pursuing. Our 2003 22 C-Dory currently has a 90HP engine, with no backup. To date we have not ventured much distance in our boat, but we would like to cruise some distance. The thought of getting stuck with no backup is a concern. My boat is currently at a Honda Marine dealer (Saeger Marine in Canandaigua NY) having repairs made to the engine. While it was in for service I requested a quote for kicker-either a 9.9 or 8hp engine was recommended. I followed up with the rigger at the dealer today, and he asked if I had seen one of our boats rigged with a kicker. Unfortunately I have not-since our boats are pretty rare in our area of the country. The dealer commented that the kicker would have to go on the starboard side-since the swim platform is on the port side. Also since we have trim tabs there is an issue of clearance required so the bracket would have to accommodate that. He asked if I had pictures of some boats and info regarding a bracket-so here is my request for help! I looked around the site I did not find a good shot of a set-up with 90 hp and a kicker

If any of you are aware of some good shots on our website of kicker set-up-let me know!.
If you are aware of a recommended engine bracket manufacturer(used with trim tabs on our 22 boats)-send it along please.

Finally, if you have experience with running a kicker with your 90 hp engine-any suggestions on setting it up would be appreciated. As far as set-up is concerned, I'm thinking of steering at the helm, electric start, or anything else you recommend that I include-or at least consider.

Thanks ahead of time for any assistance you can provide. This is new to me, and to honest-it represents a bit of $$ for us. The engine alone is in the $2,500 range, so if we take the plunge, I would like to get it set-up properly. As far as timing is concerned I'm thinking I might have it done over the winter while the boat is out of the water-or perhaps next year.

My wife and I will be traveling out of state starting tomorrow (Friday) morning and returning after Labor Day. We will not have access to email, so my responses will be delayed. If it would be helpful, perhaps this might be a topic we could discuss on a phone call?? Thanks again for your help.
Regards,
Jack Howell

DuckDogTitus · Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:22 am Post subject:

Digger set up our boat, but I can try to get you more info and pictures and my own thoughts after experience with a couple boats that had both a main and a kicker.

first, i have a 90hp OB as my main, and a 9.9 as well. the swim platform to starboard, kicker to port. the 9.9 is quite economical in my opinion. ours is a 2stroke (vs the OB which is a 4 stroke). that might be a nice upgrade some day.

things I love about the setup that Digger did before we bought the boat:

things that I we had on the Lund that would be nice but we do not have now:

those are small things though and right now I can say the current setup is sweet Thumbs Up

I have had this boat on the water 23 days so far (and I trailer it, dont moor it) since May and I love it.

DuckDogTitus · Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:24 am Post subject:

here are a couple more pics of our boat from Digger's photo album too from before we bought it:

http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?set_albumName=Snoopy-C&id=IMG_0676&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php

http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?set_albumName=Snoopy-C&id=IMG_0682&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php

http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?set_albumName=Snoopy-C&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php&page=6

thataway · Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:32 am Post subject:

I am sure that Sunbeam will chime in with the bracket she used. I have always used the adjustable brackets and a short shaft dinghy motor. Currently the 3.5 Hp 2 stroke Merc. Light weight (30 lbs) the bracket goes out as it goes down, thus able to clear the trim tabs. Granted the 3.5 hp will not run the boat fast, especially against wind and current--but it will always get us to a safe place. I have rarely had to use a kicker. Only once with a 26 foot Sea Skiff which is considerably larger than the C Dory 25, and a 2 hp got me home fine. (about 10 miles) The 8 hp will be plenty to give you hull speed or about 5 knots. (I spent much of my youth on my father's 26 foot sailboat which had more resistance than a 25 foot C Dory with its only power a 5 hp early 1930's Johnson. We many many trips to Catalina with that motor when there was no wind. 5 knots was the speed.)

So my philosophy is different than many who have 8 to 15 hp kickers. If I was using it for trolling, I probably would have an electric start, electric tilt and trim, a rod to join the kicker to the main engine, and an auto pilot for the kicker ($$$). I have locked the 3.5 and steered with the main as a rudder. The other option is to take the main out and use an articulated tiller extension (or PVC Pipe).

There is the arguement that if you are bucking wind and tide the smaller motors are not enough--if the wind and tide are that adverse, I either go with them, or find a safe place and sit it out, until conditions become favorable and then limp to "help". On the other hand, well maintained modern outboards are about a reliable as modern automobiles. Breakdown is rare.

DuckDogTitus · Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:52 pm Post subject:

Good points Bob. The water that you plan to be in is going to make a big difference in size I think. I seem to habitually be fishing in areas of strong current and the 9.9hp sometimes I feel isn't enough even to fight it, so I'll switch to the main and go at almost idle.

I haven't had the experience of a smaller motor in these conditions, but knowing that sometimes I have to rev the 9.9 quite a bit to fight a 2-3+ knot current I figured a smaller motor wouldn't cut it. I could be wrong though.

thataway · Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:23 pm Post subject:

Probably the best kickers are the "HI thrust"--swing a larger prop and lower pitch. Since you are not going faster than 7 knots with any of these, this is the proper type of gearing and prop to have.

If I was going to be using the kicker for trolling that is what I would buy.

DuckDogTitus · Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:25 pm Post subject:

thataway · Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:44 pm Post subject:

What prop is on your 9.9? Most come with a prop set up to use on a 12 to 14 foot Aluminum skiff--weight about 600 to 800 lbs loaded; not to push a 3600 lb C Dory... You would be looking at 6" to 7" pitch prop.

DuckDogTitus · Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:53 pm Post subject:

bridma · Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 3:14 pm Post subject: Kicker engine

On one of my previous boats I had one of those brackets that you push away and lower at the same time. I bought the most heavy duty one available. I then hung a 8hp Yamaha on it. Worked for me.

Martin.

thataway · Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:05 pm Post subject:

Props are marked either on the side of the hub, on the inside of the hub (inside toward the thrust washer), or on the inside of the hub on the outside. It may have a parts number, or more often the diameter x the pitch: Most of the 9.9 are 9 1/4" diameter (can be up to 10") and pitch 5" to 12" You also need to count the splines on the prop shaft--they vary from 8, 12, 14 & 15 splines. Most are in aluminum, but there are a few in Stainless Steel. Some are 4 blade as well as 3 blade.

Chris Bulovsky · Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:32 pm Post subject:

Pat.jack- I have the 90 honda main with a 9.9 kicker. I do have some pics in my album that illustrate the set up. I do not have a swim step and most likely never will as I can get on and off the boat without to much trouble when I'm in my 60's 70s' or 80's I may rethink this but for now its no trouble.

A 9.9 thats only used for emergencies seems a bit wasteful to me. If you plan to troll however do it and don't look back! Also note that a 9.9s typically have a 20-25 HP bracket (overbuilt) so it can handle the pounding in the up position. This set up works pretty well on a 22'. The 9.9 will not win races but it certainly sips fuel and has logged at least 9 times the engine hours as my main engine.

As for placement I have seen almost every configuration on this site to accommodate tabs and swim steps. Jack plates and various brackets are employed to remedy problems.....Mine is a pretty simple setup I think I got lucky.
Good hunting -

Chris Bulovsky

colbysmith · Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:42 pm Post subject:

I have a 6hp kicker, mounted on the starboard side of my main, a 115hp Merc. So don't know if they'll help much, but look at the photo section for Midnight Flyer, as I have photos there of my setup. Colby

pat.jack · Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:35 pm Post subject: Kicker Engine Update and Thanks!

Hi Folks,

My wife and I finally are back home and I have access to a computer. I just wanted to give you an update on the feedback you provided on my question on a kicker for my 90hp Honda on our 22' boat. 1st-thanks as always for your insight and offers of assistance. Yesterday I picked up our boat from the Honda marine dealer--I'll send another note regarding the repairs to our engine at some other time. In particular the pictures that 'Midnight' provided of his kicker set-up were great. I printed out all the info you folks provided along with a number of pictures of your set-ups. The 'rigger' at Saeger Marine commented that this was very helpful in terms of sorting out what he would have to do to set it up properly.

More importantly, you provided me a number of things to consider. The mechanic I talked with at Saeger Marine had commented that he thought we could get by just fine without the kicker-his comments seemed to line up with Bob Austin's comment on the reliability of these Honda engines-as long as they are well maintained. (Note the boat mechanic was not the same person as the 'rigger' I mentioned earlier). Also your suggestions regarding the size of the engine that might be appropriate was great-if we do go with a 'back-up' engine it appears we could easily go with a smaller engine. One thought you provided me to consider is the fact I could simply run the boat on the kicker if we are cruising at slow speed and extend the life of our main engine. Our initial plans for the boat are to put it on the Erie Canal-and honestly-much of the canal is limited in speed to something around 'hull speed' for our boat.

In any event, I'll keep you posted on what we decide. In the mean time-I have a number of small 'projects' I need to complete so I can get the boat in the water before it goes in for winter storage!
Regards,
Jack Howell

thataway · Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:06 pm Post subject:

One thought you provided me to consider is the fact I could simply run the boat on the kicker if we are cruising at slow speed and extend the life of our main engine. Our initial plans for the boat are to put it on the Erie Canal-and honestly-much of the canal is limited in speed to something around 'hull speed' for our boat.

Another thought about using the engine at low speed and longevity is, that you do want to have the engine warmed up. There are a number of well documented cases of many brands of 4 stroke outboards lasting over 4,000 and even up to 9,000 hours without any major repairs. Many of these are run a fair amount of time at slow speeds, are run every day, and serviced regularly.

One of the down sides of using a kicker in area such as the Erie Canal, unless you have remote controls, especially in a crowded area is the difficulty of use of shift and throttle controls that are on the engine. I don't know if you are going to be boating in congested areas, or going thru locks, but that may have some impact on your decision to use a kicker vs the main engine.