Yamaha F80 trims/tilts up but not down

[Sunbeam]

So, today's my day to check the engines over prior to (finally!) launching. Both engines had very minimal use when I bought the boat, and thus I had both completely gone through and maintenance done. This was around a year ago, and at that time they both tested out fine.

So, current problem is with my 2002 Yamaha F80. The engine will power trim (or maybe I should say "tilt") up but not down. I did trim the engine down in May when I was installing the trailering "wedge," and it did work then. But not today. So...

Whether I try to trim it down with the switch on the engine or with the switch on the remote control at the helm, I get the same thing, which is nothing. I tried to Google/search a bit, but most people who had this problem still seemed to have a "click" when pressing the down switch. I have no click. As mentioned, up works great.

I remembered seeing where C-Weed and Dora~Jean (they both have F80's too) had repaired a broken trim sender cam (and indeed, the new one is apparently metal now whereas the old/original one was plastic, and apparently broke often). So I went and looked at mine. Yep, broken. At first I thought maybe that was the culprit, but now it seems like it's probably not that, for a couple of reasons:

1) The "peg" that the trim sender cam uses to do its job, is actually still in the hole, even though the band is broken. In other words, it's still where it's supposed to be, albeit I will replace it now that I know it is broken.

2) The trim indicator on my helm gauge does show all the way up (and the engine is all the way up). If the trim sender being broken was actually affecting things, then I don't think it would "register" correctly on my helm gauge.

3) We moved the trim sender cam manually and it then fooled my helm gauge into thinking the motor was trimmed to where we "moved" it. However the tilt/trim switch still does not trim the engine down.

So of course I'm going to get a new trim sender cam (especially since it's improved and stronger), but.... I have a sinking feeling that my problem is not related to this

So, to recap:

--Engine tilts up but not down.

--Same thing using either switch (on engine or at helm control).

--No clicking or sound of any kind when pressing either "down" button.

--Trim sender cam (although technically broken) is "telling" the engine that it is all the way up when it is all the way up, so that doesn't seem to be a valid reason for it not to go down.

Seems like most Yamaha dealers here are closed until Tuesday (and plus I like to figure things out myself if possible), so I'd be grateful for any suggestions of things to test or do. I'm no whiz with meters and engines, but I'm open to trying.

Thanks,
Sunbeam

[digger]

Sensor cam does not feedback info to the trim motors, so does not affect operation. Most likely a trim solenoid or bad connection.

[Sunbeam]

Thanks for confirming that, Digger.

I was reading DuckDogTitus's thread earlier wherein he had a similar trim problem (albeit with "click"), and I realized that perhaps that engine even has a Yamaha power head (mid-2000's Mercury). I think that's a former 22 of yours too, isn't it.

I then ran out to meet a friend, but will now study that thread again, to see if I can figure out how to "jumper" the solenoid to test if that's the problem.

May not be able to get parts until Tuesday anyway, but I'll feel better doing something/knowing what it is (and can then at least look for parts).

Sunbeam

[digger]

The Mercury was a yamaha power head...mostly. Some of the internal parts were mercury however -- like the camshaft..

[Sunbeam]

Now the plot may be thickening, but I'm not sure. Reason I say this is that when I got back this evening, I noticed that the engine -- which had been stuck tilted all the way up -- has "sagged" down part way. I did some Googling and found out that the problems may be related, although the threads I found were on older two strokes, and I'm not sure if they have the same type of mechanism as my engine does.

But to go back: Around a year ago, everything was fine and the engine had been fully serviced and checked out by a great Yamaha shop. No problems trimming, tilting, or having it stay tilted up. I then had a failure of a wedge that I was using to hold the engine up while trailering, and the engine did sag down slightly (I can't really "blame" the system for this since heading down the highway with the engine not fully supported is not recommended). The failed wedge allowed it to sag down partway, but not all the way (thankfully it got stuck between the engine and the transom... whew).

I wondered if this had damaged the system, but it still trimmed up and down just fine (on the trailer). BUT, any "sagging" would have been masked because I had a support under the engine at all times. Today is the first time I have removed the support in quite a while.

So, I have three issues, and I'm not sure if or how they are connected:

1) Engine prop wedge failed while trailering and engine was allowed to sag down partially until it "caught" again on the wedge. The electrical trim tilt still worked after this, but could it have been damaged? I don't know if the "sagging" problem started exactly then because I have had it supported since then, but I have to wonder.

2) Today engine would tilt up but not down. So it was all the way up when I left for a couple of hours.

3) When I arrived back I could see that it had sagged partway down (but not all the way).

The thread I read on the older two-stroke said that one could have an internal leak, which would cause the trim to work going up but not down, and which would allow the engine to sag. Basically, air would get into the system. However, I don't know if that's the same system I have.

Except for the issue on the highway with the wedge, the engine is relatively unused, so unlikely to be "worn" out (56 hours on it).

If anyone has any ideas, I'm all ears. Probably won't even be able to contact a dealer until at least Monday (drat!). Also, if anyone can recommend a meticulous, conscientious Yamaha dealer either on the Olympic Peninsula or really, anywhere within a 200-mile radius (skill is more important to me than immediate proximity), I would be grateful.

Thanks,
Sunbeam

[Sunbeam]

Well, as you can probably tell, this issue is rolling around in my mind, even though it's dark out and I probably won't look at it again until tomorrow. So close to launch though.... !

Anyway, I got to thinking, that I suppose even if my trim mechanism were physically damaged/leaking somehow from the wedge incident, that the "down" trim button would then still at least elicit a motor "trying" noise. As it is the down button does nothing, all is silent when it is pressed (engine one and remote one).

But then still, the engine "sagged" down while I was out.... so maybe I have two problems, and perhaps they are not directly related?

Sunbeam

[jennykatz]

I have a f-115 Yamaha we had a trim problem last 4th of July the engine would not tilt up .What we did to get home was relieve the pressure with the bleed screw and manually lifted it up and locked it for trailering . It ended up being a ground wire had come off . Last year I had the trim cylinders rebuilt new gaskets
I would check fluid levels and make sure no leakage coming out of trim cylinders also pull plastic cover off front of engine check your wires .I believe there should be a blue(up) and green(down) wires See if your getting power also there are some fuses and I think some relays ? Not sure ? Good Luck

[Sunbeam]

Okay, fixed this one. After reading here, and looking up the parts diagram, I was ready to check out the relays/wires, and perhaps switch the blue (up) and green (down) or maybe jumper the green straight to 12 volts.

Anyway, got in there and, lo-and-behold, a pale green wire that's just under the fuse cover on the starboard forward side of the engine (which obviously led to the relay), had a bullet connector that was completely unplugged. Just dangling in mid air. Put the bullet into the socket and, voila, down tilt restored. I guess this explains why others with the relay problem had a "click" and I had nothing.

No idea why it came apart, as it snaps together quite positively (tried to re-un-plug it, just to see, and it's really hard to do); maybe it never was plugged in 100%. At any rate, there is nothing to indicate that future "unplugging" is likely.

So, one problem down, one to go (see other thread on "sinking" engine). I can't see how the two would be related (too bad, as this one was so easy to fix!), and I can't really imagine how to fix the other one (seems like air or a leak?).

Anyway, unless anyone would like more info, I'd consider this thread successfully concluded (not that it has to end, but I mean, my Yamaha is now good in this department).

Thanks all.

Sunbeam

[DuckDogTitus]