Johnson (Suzuki) 90: Another midsection corrosion failure

[timflan]

Anybody remember WAY back in 2007 when I had this problem?
http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?p=84415&sid=a98d5144774072575dc187f2796fb151

Documented the ultimate solution at Navagear, as well:
http://www.navagear.com/2007/11/01/my-johnsons-fixed/

In a nutshell, I had corrosion of the Engine Holder, the topmost of three large aluminum castings that constitute the midsection of the motor.

Well guess what? It looks like the Oil Pan casting (the middle one) has suffered a similar fate, and it might even explain the "pinging"/"knocking"/"rattling" sound I've been experiencing since late 2010. (Discussed here: http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t=15804)

Looks like another $2000 repair, probably! That's what the first one cost.

Pictures...


WOW! What's will all the black soot on the lower portion of the engine housing? Also notice the heat damage on the port-side cover...that crackley-looking foam insulation? Weird, eh?


Starboard side of the engine midsection has some soot, but it's not all the bad. In defense of Jacobsen's, who opened this up most recently and didn't notice anything unusual, this is the side you normally work on.


But check out the port side...wow! That can't be good. I'm going to guess that the problem is on this side. Let's go in for a closer look and see if we can spot anything obvious.


BINGO! Corrosion resulting in an internal exhaust leak. Result: Soot and "rattling" engine noise as RPMs increase. Also some heat damage to foam, rubber, and even the fiberglass engine housing.

[timflan]

Confirmed by running the engine with the garden hose and the "ears". Water (and, therefore, exhaust) leaks out of this hole.

Decided that maybe I could patch it with some JB Weld. I can't hardly ruin a piece that already needs replacing, after all! Very low risk, I'm thinking.

First step...remove that bolt. It's in the way. Bolt comes out without incident. Now...what have we got here?



Ooh, bad. I doubt I can JB Weld this without leaving some goop that will probably prevent the bolt from seating properly. Might still be worth a try, but I should probably count on failure, and make plans to replace the oil pan casting.

And another thought occurred to me: If the corrosion is this bad in just this one spot, how bad is it elsewhere? I'm not too concerned about it breaking through to the outside, like it did this time, but if it corrodes through on the INSIDE (the actual "oil pan" part of the Oil Pan casting), I could end up mixing oil and exhaust/seawater, which sort of seems like the recipe for a truly catastrophic failure.

So I'm thinking...just replace the part. It's not as expensive at the Engine Holder. About $400 instead of about $700. And the labor should be less, as well; the illustrations suggest that a LOT fewer bits and pieces need to be connected to the Oil Pan than with the Engine Holder.

Thoughts?

[BrentB]

I have no assistance but have a Yamaha OB with midsection corrosion issues and needed to replace the oil pan, drive shaft seal and sleeve repair, mid section, etc
It was expensive and no assistance from Yamaha. The Ft Meyers shop owner was super and discounted the parts and labor,
I contacted BoatUS due to a recent article on these OB models
They are working with Yamaha and there "might" be a settlement. I provided my documentation and pictures in the hope of a free hat, key chain or Ring free..... intended sarcasm .....
.

[rogerar]

The same problem on my Suzuki DF115, but the engine exploded from a low pressure fuel line pinhole-it leaked gas into the engine housing + backfire when starting= explosion and fireball blowing the engine cowling 30 feet into the air! The force of the explosion opened the corroded hole in the casting, resulting in an exhaust leak, with associated trouble codes. When the Suzuki dealer opened the engine to replace the casting, it was found that the entire block was corroded(not the water passages) beyond repair.
This engine was always flushed with freshwater after use and zincs replaced twice a year.
Please check your block carefully before you put any more money into it!
Also the engine manual says to replace ALL fuel lines every 2 years! There was no problem with the fuel lines, just a manufacturing defect that caused the pinhole.
Roger

[BrentB]

Here are my pics
https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/100677968492070397921/albums/5601899457728735185?authkey=CKr1qN-qtOTj3AE


My issues started with a leaking drive shaft seal in oil pan and during tear down, corrosion issues were found

[Robbi]

I had this galvanic corrosion problem with my 2004 Suzuki 90. The plug that causes the problem is a carbon steel plug that is mounted in the aluminum exhaust port. The steel plug was called an oxygen sensor port.

I caught mine early, but it was causing the engine to run poorly. I had a 6 year warranty, 3 Suzuki, and 3 from a company that I can't recall, but was part of the purchase agreement from Suzuki when I bought the motor.

The first dealer that I took the engine to for a diagnosis told me that it indeed was a corrosion issue and that that was not covered on the warranty. They were going to send in a request for warranty anyway, but I for some reason balked and decided to do more research. Good thing I did.

Long story short, my warranty request was sent in with the magic words "dissimilar metals" and NOT corrosion. The repair work was covered and it cost me nothing. I put another 500 hours on the motor and never had another problem.

The sensor was removed from the motors in either 2008 or 2009. Some folks may have one of these engines that could possibly still be under warranty. If you have this issue, and have a warranty, make sure if you make a claim, the word corrosion is not used. Once you make a claim, you can't redo it.

I have read that the problem occurs much more frequently in outboards that are moored in the salt, (which mine was) than those that are stored on trailers, which makes sense.

Performance Marine in Everett, WA did the warranty request, and the repair for me.

Robbi

[timflan]

I had that problem, too! That's the "Engine Holder" problem from 2007 that I referenced above.

This new "Oil Pan" problem may or may not be caused by "dissimilar metals" galvanic corrosion.

[Will-C]

Brent,
Does this happen even if you flushed your motor after every salt water use? I wondered how many hours on your motor before it occurred.
D.D.

[BrentB]

Hi

Corrosion occur in the exhaust side
Flushing will not help

see
http://www.boatus.com/magazine/2012/october/Yamaha-F225-Corrosion-Complaints.asp

[localboy]

So we have Suzuki and Yamaha. How's Honda on this? Anyone know if the "JOHNSON" aka Suzuki posted here is the same as a DF150? Sure look alike as I remember; the oil filter location, manifold and fuel filter location are like our 150.

[Robbi]

Mark, I am pretty sure it is the 90/115/140's that have the steel plugs in the engine holders, and that was in model years 2001 to 2007.

Robbi

[localboy]

Thanks, Robbi. I'm still doing some "research" but it's too nice outside to sit at the computer all day.....

[thataway]

Yes, it is the Suzuki 90, 115 and 140 (not 150), 2000 thru 2007. Unfortunately I have a Suzuki 140, with no apparent issues so far, but am not aware of a recall by Suzuki--there may be one) Apparently the plug was changed 2008.

[cbgale]

Is the corrosion issue due to electrolysis at the point where the steel bolts and castings meet? Is this the only size block affected or has anyone noticed in other sizes, such as 40 and 50 hp Suzuki/Johnsons?

[thataway]

Yes, it is my understanding that it is a carbon steel plug with an aluminum casting. That there was susposed to be a sensor in this location, and then it was decided to not use the sensor (or maybe it was an option).

I have heard that the smaller engines were NOT affected.