Cracks in fiberglass - big problem???

[C-Nile]

[potter water]

If there is true glass delamination anywhere on a boat that is for sale and has not been repaired already, that seems to me to be a deal killer from the get go. Also, true delamination that you can see may mean that there is other in other areas that you can't see. Just makes me squeamish to think about what else may be going on in that boat. Even with the dealer fix, I've seen to many goop and paint repair jobs on glass boats that didn't get into the structural repairs that would be most appropriate.

Granted, gel coat cracks are assessed entirely differently than cracks in the roving.

Good luck my friend.

[thataway]

The cracks we saw are not "hairline" cracks, but pretty deep cracks through a couple of layers of roving. In fact, I'm a little surprised that there is still water filling the void under the raised cabin sole / porta-potti floor - the cracks look deep enough that water could drain out through them, but obviously must not be all the way through all of the laminations

Not sure how much roving is used in this area, but I would suspect more mat and cloth, or one of the other combination glass laminates. In any case, if the crack is this deep, to properly assess it, it must be ground out. The floor in this area needs to be accessed with an inspection plate--and all water removed. If it were my boat, then I would snake a borescope in and take a good look on the inside. The hulls can flex some and this could be a point of stress--but just as likely on the trailer as on the water. I agree that it must be fixed correctly before anyone buys the boat. I also agree that there are a lot of cosmetic fill and gel coat type of repairs done, which are not proper. But this happens in the building of boats also. We really don't know how much glass there really is in this area, and what the composition of the glass is. In the 25 where I had to rebuild the top of the transom and splash well--which was taking a lot of the thrust of the engine--there was one area which had only one layer of mat, the rest was filler!

I don't know how deep the cracks in Jay's or Brent's boats are/were, but one where you can see broken glass fibers is enough that it is consequential.

[Hunkydory]

These are the photos of cracks & delamination in the Hunkydory in the same area described by Pete in the boat he is consideration purchasing. The first photo is of the Port Side & the second the Starboard. These have remained unchanged since we purchased in 2003 & were said by the previous owner to be unchanged, after he tried to have the Factory repair, under warrentee in 2001, which was shortly after purchasing new. They sure appear to me to be the same as Pete describes & all I can say is, I sure am glad, when I purchased this boat, there was not a C-Brat site available then in my case for members to recommend me not purchasing as I most likely would have taken their advise, where as instead, I am totally satisfied with the deal made over 10 years ago. When I first saw this & Gordon explained it to me I was concerned, but in talking to him, I judged him, as a man who's word I could trust & like I said, I'm glad I did. I have since shown these cracks to two other C-Brat members & they both said it wouldn't have been a deal stopper for them either.



Jay

[thataway]

Jay,
Looking at photos of course is not like looking at the boat--but it does not look like there is a lot of glass in these areas? This is certainly an area where the forward V bunk and pan molding is attached to the hull with tabbing, which may be thin--and then gel coated over. I suspect that the hull does flex there a small amount--both on the water and on the trailer. That flex would cause the cracking.

I would have "fixed" them, with epoxy and glass tape--but we all do what we are comfortable with--and you have put a lot of miles on the boat. Would it have stopped me from buying the boat--of course not, but I enjoy fixing things like this--and it becomes a project.

I also realize that I did not answer the question about screws on the brass strip--they are not bolts, just screws into the glass of the stem, along with sealant.

[Hunkydory]

Bob,

I re read what I wrote & think I came on to strong on taking advise from fellow C-Brats. Much of the advise here & especially from you can be taken to the bank. I just wanted to point out to Pete in this particular case it appeared the factory had caused a similar defect with the boat he was considering & mine & that it didn't turn out to be a major for me. Your right in that it would be best for me to repair it or have it repaired. The reason I have not is mainly lack of knowledge to do a proper repair & I live in a isolated area where finding someone I trust to do it is difficult. As time passed & I made trip after trip north on rough roads with the boat on a single axle trailer to Alaska & considerable rough water use while there, without any further increase in defect, it appeared even more so to me, that it wasn't a structural defect, which would only worsen if not repaired, so it started out & stayed a non issue to me. I have no doubt you would have done a quality repair before ever putting the boat in the water.

[thataway]

Jay,
Not at all too strong. We all have different thoughts about what is going on in our boats. The only problem I might see with your cracks, is if you wash down the cabin floor, or spray out the interior (and I don't know if you do that) water may get in under the platform (and probably will run back out).
After this last summer and about a month on Powell, I hosed down the interior of my 22 to get that fine red dust out. One of the beauties of this boat!

I don't know for certain if this "bulkhead" takes any flexion load on the hull, but I suspect it does to some degree. The C Dory is relitatively free of bulkheads, and I suspect that the hull flexes a bit. None of this is a structural issue which would cause any problems with running the boat.

The 25 I rebuilt did have some of the tabbing on the V berth which had come loose. I attributed that to the boat having been run hard into chop. But there were not cracks in the floor pan.

I am sure that all of the boats can take more than any of us can!

[westward]

Does this boat have an open back or does it have an Alaska bulkhead with a door? Reason I ask is, having owned an 07 22' Angler with the door, I always felt that the bulkhead return sections from the gunnel to the door jambs served as a diaphragm and thusly imparted at least some resistance to hull flexing. Without these returns, any other bulkheads on the boat would presumably be under more stress. Mind you, I'm neither a naval architect nor an engineer. Delamination due to water intrusion, if present as the dealer states, is a potentially serious matter in a boat with a balsa core. I would personally have it checked out by an expert prior to purchase, to get a handle on what it's going to cost to repair properly. Best, Mike.

[rogerbum]

If the cracks are in a similar location to those on Jay's boat, they are where the fiberglass component that makes the V-berth is tabbed/connected to the cored sole. Jay's don't look like they create cracks into the sole itself and like Jay, I view those as a non-issue that's mostly cosmetic.

[thataway]

I agree that these cracks pictured do not run any risk of water getting into the core. This tabbing is above the inner glass over the core--and this is an area where there is a transition from a cored bottom to a solid bottom.

I doubt that these cracks were caused by "delamination due to water".

[Hunkydory]

In my case I thought the same as Roger & Bob about the possible intrusion of water into the core from the cracks, but not being 100% sure of the boat construction in this area was very glad to have it confirmed by a couple of C-brats in who's opinions, I have a very high regard.

[thataway]

It might be useful at some C Brat gatherings to have someone who is familiar with Ultrasonic measurement devices check out some of these laminates. Sort of do a mini survey of areas where folks have questions.

The cost of ultrasonic devices has come way down in the last few years.