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mgarr682
Joined: 29 Sep 2012
Posts: 182
City/Region: Asheville
State or Province: NC
C-Dory Year: 2013
C-Dory Model: 22 Angler
Vessel Name: Glenda Jean
Photos: Glenda Jean
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 Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:18 pm Post subject: Switched power source. |
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I need to find a wire from my ignition that will supply power for the fuel flow meter when the engine switch is turned on and cut power when the switch is turned off. Does anyone happen to have any Honda documentation for the switch/shift/throttle and instrument wiring that comes with the current Honda 90?
There is a bundle of wires from the shift/throttle mechanism that comes out behind the dash to feed the three installed gauges (tach/hour meter, trim meter, volt meter) and has additional bundles of wires marked fuel, speedometer, and water. The red wire from the bundle marked water is connected to the nav lights switch and supplies power to the instrument lights. I'm not sure how that works but it does.
I think the gauges are actually Teleflex although they are marked Honda on the face. Looking at the Teleflex website they look the same otherwise, particularly as far as the electrical connections on the back.
The tach/hour meter has a wire to the "IGN" terminal that according to the Teleflex website is a 12 volt feed from the engine switch. Checking it with a volt meter showed it to be hot (meter showed 12 volts, but it was a six dollar meter twenty years ago) when the switch is on and dead when the switch is off, which is what I need for the fuel flow meter.
The fuel flow meter requires a 12 volt switched power source and is to be fused at 1 amp so I'm thinking power requirements should be minimal. My question is, do you think the "IGN" wire would be an adequate source or should I be searching for another switched source?
Any suggestions or opinions welcome!
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Mike Garrett
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rob bauerle
Joined: 07 Oct 2010
Posts: 126
City/Region: spokane
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Robbie's Refuge
Photos: Robbie’s Refuge
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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| What type of flow meter do you have |
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mgarr682
Joined: 29 Sep 2012
Posts: 182
City/Region: Asheville
State or Province: NC
C-Dory Year: 2013
C-Dory Model: 22 Angler
Vessel Name: Glenda Jean
Photos: Glenda Jean
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jkidd
Joined: 23 Oct 2006
Posts: 1668
City/Region: Northern, Utah
State or Province: UT
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Voyager
Photos: Voyager (JK)
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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The gauges on mine has an ignition wire that just jumper from one gauges to the next. At the last gauges was a loose wire that would have gone to the next gauge I used that one to connect to.
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Jody Kidd
KE7WNG
Northern, Utah
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potter water
Joined: 12 Apr 2011
Posts: 1076
City/Region: Logan
State or Province: UT
C-Dory Year: 1997
C-Dory Model: R-21 Tug
Vessel Name: Poopsy
Photos: Still C-razy
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:49 am Post subject: |
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Don't mean to put a damper on anything, but I might tell a cautionary tale. I bought a genuine Suzuki fuel flow meter. But in the fine print, It says that it takes quite a bit of fuel flow to even get the thing to tick. I didn't read the fine print until after I'd cut the hole and installed the meter. It never has worked even though the turbine in the fuel flow meter will turn easily if I blow on it. So, you might want to double check that this thing will work for you. I've run both 50 hp Suzy engines wot and not gotten enough flow to make the thing spin.
Just my two bits. If others are using your brand or another brand that are working fine at our typical C-dory low fuel flows, I'd like to hear their experiences.
I'm looking at going with the computer driven flow meter for my engine that uses the engine computers to display fuel flow.
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You can tell a man his wife is ugly, but never ever criticize his dog, his gun, his truck or his boat.
Never let ignorance interfere with an opportunity to state a knowledgeable opinion
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2006 C-Dory 22 Cruiser 2008-2014
1997 Ranger Tug 21 Classic 2016
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mgarr682
Joined: 29 Sep 2012
Posts: 182
City/Region: Asheville
State or Province: NC
C-Dory Year: 2013
C-Dory Model: 22 Angler
Vessel Name: Glenda Jean
Photos: Glenda Jean
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:16 am Post subject: |
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| potter water wrote: | Don't mean to put a damper on anything, but I might tell a cautionary tale. I bought a genuine Suzuki fuel flow meter. But in the fine print, It says that it takes quite a bit of fuel flow to even get the thing to tick. I didn't read the fine print until after I'd cut the hole and installed the meter. It never has worked even though the turbine in the fuel flow meter will turn easily if I blow on it. So, you might want to double check that this thing will work for you. I've run both 50 hp Suzy engines wot and not gotten enough flow to make the thing spin.
Just my two bits. If others are using your brand or another brand that are working fine at our typical C-dory low fuel flows, I'd like to hear their experiences.
I'm looking at going with the computer driven flow meter for my engine that uses the engine computers to display fuel flow. |
The Faria meter is supposed to measure from 0.5 to 34 GPH. I expect most anything above idle would fall in that range. I'll be finding out how well it works soon. I was kind of surprised to find out that the 90 HP Honda isn't NMEA capable when just about all of their other outboards are. That limited my options on a fuel flow meter
After I run it I'll post the results.
Thanks! |
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jkidd
Joined: 23 Oct 2006
Posts: 1668
City/Region: Northern, Utah
State or Province: UT
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Voyager
Photos: Voyager (JK)
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:25 am Post subject: |
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| mgarr682 wrote: | | potter water wrote: | Don't mean to put a damper on anything, but I might tell a cautionary tale. I bought a genuine Suzuki fuel flow meter. But in the fine print, It says that it takes quite a bit of fuel flow to even get the thing to tick. I didn't read the fine print until after I'd cut the hole and installed the meter. It never has worked even though the turbine in the fuel flow meter will turn easily if I blow on it. So, you might want to double check that this thing will work for you. I've run both 50 hp Suzy engines wot and not gotten enough flow to make the thing spin.
Just my two bits. If others are using your brand or another brand that are working fine at our typical C-dory low fuel flows, I'd like to hear their experiences.
I'm looking at going with the computer driven flow meter for my engine that uses the engine computers to display fuel flow. |
The Faria meter is supposed to measure from 0.5 to 34 GPH. I expect most anything above idle would fall in that range. I'll be finding out how well it works soon. I was kind of surprised to find out that the 90 HP Honda isn't NMEA capable when just about all of their other outboards are. That limited my options on a fuel flow meter
After I run it I'll post the results.
Thanks! |
Harry brings up a good point. I have a Standard Horizon same as the Faria at 600 rpm it can't quite spin the turbine right but at 1000 rpm everything works fine. I have since switched to reading the computer off of the motor much more accurate. Didn't your Honda 90 come with a smart gauge? It should read the computer as well. |
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beermanPDX
Joined: 01 Feb 2012
Posts: 261
City/Region: Portland
State or Province: OR
Photos: Jean Marie
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:43 am Post subject: |
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| potter water wrote: | | If others are using your brand or another brand that are working fine at our typical C-dory low fuel flows, I'd like to hear their experiences. |
I installed two of the Garmin GFS10 fuel flow meters on my twin Honda 90s. They have the same type of inline "turbine" as you mention. Per the specs, they require 2GPH minimum flow for accurate readings. So for my boat, that means something over 6 - 8 kts. The flow sensors do register rates below 2GPH, but who knows how accurate they are. For me, I don't usually worry about fuel economy / rate at displacement speeds anyway. It's when I'm on plane that I become a penny-pincher.
It's a decent setup with my Garmin 740S. I have my main chartplotter screen set to have the instantaneous fuel economy (mpg) displayed as one of the numerical overlays.
I love everything about the Honda 90s EXCEPT what mgarr682 already mentioned, no NMEA.
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Rob
2008 25 Cruiser - Sold
2002 Nordic Tug 32/4 - Sold
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jkidd
Joined: 23 Oct 2006
Posts: 1668
City/Region: Northern, Utah
State or Province: UT
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Voyager
Photos: Voyager (JK)
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
I love everything about the Honda 90s EXCEPT what mgarr682 already mentioned, no NMEA.
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I thought Honda made some proprietary gauges that were not Nmea but would read fuel flow. My 2007 Suzuki 115 is not Nmea but Lowrance made a device that plugs into the computer port on the motor and converts the engine data nmea 2000 sentences. |
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jkidd
Joined: 23 Oct 2006
Posts: 1668
City/Region: Northern, Utah
State or Province: UT
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Voyager
Photos: Voyager (JK)
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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This was in the manual posted under the Honda 90.
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beermanPDX
Joined: 01 Feb 2012
Posts: 261
City/Region: Portland
State or Province: OR
Photos: Jean Marie
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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| jkidd wrote: | | I thought Honda made some proprietary gauges that were not Nmea but would read fuel flow. My 2007 Suzuki 115 is not Nmea but Lowrance made a device that plugs into the computer port on the motor and converts the engine data nmea 2000 sentences. |
They do make the fuel management gauge (as you've linked in your next post), but it's proprietary and doesn't integrate with anything else. I wanted something that could be integrated with my chartplotter. |
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mgarr682
Joined: 29 Sep 2012
Posts: 182
City/Region: Asheville
State or Province: NC
C-Dory Year: 2013
C-Dory Model: 22 Angler
Vessel Name: Glenda Jean
Photos: Glenda Jean
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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| jkidd wrote: | | Quote: |
I love everything about the Honda 90s EXCEPT what mgarr682 already mentioned, no NMEA.
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I thought Honda made some proprietary gauges that were not Nmea but would read fuel flow. My 2007 Suzuki 115 is not Nmea but Lowrance made a device that plugs into the computer port on the motor and converts the engine data nmea 2000 sentences. |
I think all Honda outboards (current models) are NMEA ready except for the 70 and 90 HP models. Go figure.
Lowrance makes NMEA interfaces for all of the Honda outboards except the 70 and 90. To get fuel flow via Lowrance would require a $200 fuel flow sensor inserted in the fuel line just like the Faria plus the cost of a NMEA compatible gauge or chartplotter to display the data. The Faria set up (gauge and sensor) was $179.
Honda does make a set of digital gauges for the 90 and 70 that displays fuel usage but the set is around $1000. My boat has the much cheaper analog gauges so I added the Faria setup.
When I finally get it on the water (sometime in the next few weeks, hopefully) I'll post on how well it seemed to do.
Last edited by mgarr682 on Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:17 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Matt Gurnsey
Dealer
Joined: 11 Nov 2008
Posts: 1532
City/Region: Port Orchard
State or Province: WA
Photos: Kitsap Marina
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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The paddle wheel style fuel flow sensors don't work well with fuel injected engines. The problem is that most of the fuel injected engines have two pumps and fuel is drawn into a small tank (vapor seperator tank or similar) on the engine, so the fuel drawn by the paddle wheel happens in bursts.
This means the gauge often can't give real time fuel use numbers, but the total numbers may be close to accurate.
The Honda gauge while more expensive and with less ability to share data may give the most accurate information.
Another option may be to contact Maretron for their latest information on NMEA 2000 adapters that may hook up to the Honda. Maretron specializes in NMEA 2000 networking, and if a solution is available for the Honda, they'll know what it is.
Good luck!
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Matt Gurnsey
Kitsap Marina
www.kitsapmarina.com
360-895-2193
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mgarr682
Joined: 29 Sep 2012
Posts: 182
City/Region: Asheville
State or Province: NC
C-Dory Year: 2013
C-Dory Model: 22 Angler
Vessel Name: Glenda Jean
Photos: Glenda Jean
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Matt Gurnsey wrote: | The paddle wheel style fuel flow sensors don't work well with fuel injected engines. The problem is that most of the fuel injected engines have two pumps and fuel is drawn into a small tank (vapor seperator tank or similar) on the engine, so the fuel drawn by the paddle wheel happens in bursts.
This means the gauge often can't give real time fuel use numbers, but the total numbers may be close to accurate. |
The Faria gauge mentions this in the documentation stating that the sampling time can be adjusted to compensate for naturally aspirated engines vs fuel injected engines. The documents say a sampling time of 10 to 15 seconds usually works for carburated engines but a longer sampling time may be required for fuel injected engines and provides directions for changing the sampling times in the setup menu for the device. |
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beermanPDX
Joined: 01 Feb 2012
Posts: 261
City/Region: Portland
State or Province: OR
Photos: Jean Marie
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Matt Gurnsey wrote: | | The paddle wheel style fuel flow sensors don't work well with fuel injected engines. The problem is that most of the fuel injected engines have two pumps and fuel is drawn into a small tank (vapor seperator tank or similar) on the engine, so the fuel drawn by the paddle wheel happens in bursts. |
That's a good point. I do think that a lot of this would depend on the size of the VST. The smaller the VST the more negligible the effect. I haven't noticed any cycling or bursting with the instantaneous readings. It seems to stay very steady. Maybe the Honda's VST is small enough that it doesn't matter. Or maybe the float is set so that the VST is constantly being topped off as opposed to drain and fill?
The Garmin GFS10 will "work" with fuel injection, but they definitely state in the installation instructions that it's: "not recommended for systems with large engine-mounted fuel reservoirs." |
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