Time for another battery charger discussion?

[JamesTXSD]

[PeterQ]

I was just browsing the Blue Sea Systems web site, and it appears that they will be offering a 25A smart/multiple battery charger 1Q2013, called the P12.

Guess we won't know if it's the hot ticket till it has an established track record, but it looks good on paper and comes from a reputable company....be interested to hear what others think about it anyway...

[Robert H. Wilkinson]

Jim - you should get more than 2 years from your batteries. Heres a few suggestions.

1/ Use only quality batteries designed for marine use. They are built to withstand vibration better than a car battery. Also make sure they are secured to minimize vibration. (not just loose inside a battery box)

2/ Starting battery for starting - deep cycle for house loads. Simply put - don't mix them when charging or mix their intended use.

3/ Keep your batteries at the upper levels of their charge capacity. You should not discharge your house bank below about 50% capacity(on a regular basis). You can buy an alarm or low voltage cutoff switch to protect your batteries. Some inverters have them built in.

4/ Maintain wet cell levels religiously. If you let the fluid level fall below the level of the plates - the amount of plate left exposed is now dead and you loose that % of capacity.

4/ If your charger has the option - after adding water(distilled) give them an equalizing charge at a higher voltage (usually around 15.5v). This helps to remix the electrolyte.

5/ If your batteries are normally charged at low amperage they will benefit from an equalizing charge as well. It helps offset the effects of stratification(which batteries charged at low amperages suffer from).

6/ Maintain connections - clean post and cable end - install - then a light spray with battery terminal protector. Never spray the cable end or battery post before the connection is made and tight.

Just a few of the many things that will shorten the service life of a battery.

Regards, Rob

[JamesTXSD]

Hi Rob,

We have taken care with the batteries. Until this summer, I have been using Interstate marine batteries, deep cycle for the house side, starting battery for... well, for starting.

I have pretty much lost faith in Interstate. I have had two batteries fail within a couple months during that time. Of course, if they are on the house side, a bad one degrades the other. When we bought the boat (new), one battery failed within 6 months. Keep in mind, this was new... as in: from the factory... we picked the boat up at the factory. The boat was supposed to have two house batteries, it only had one. The factory added a second one when we gave them our shake-down list. When I tried to get the first failed battery replaced, I was told, "That battery is 17 months old." Interesting, since the boat was only 6 months old at the time.

If we're keeping track, that is 9 batteries in less than 6 years. I keep the boat plugged in when we're home. If we're out and about with the boat, it is getting regular use. The batteries almost never need water - they are not boiling away. The batteries have sat in the boat during the previous two summers, while we were off doing "fun summer jobs."

The original Guest charger died sometime within the first few months. The second charger, same Guest 2621A seemed to work fine, but we continued killing batteries every other year. Now, the Guest charger isn't working on one of the banks, two more batteries that are a little better than marginal, and I'm not all fired up about putting more of the same in there.

Further more interesting stuff, all our other battery-using stuff gets us 4 or more years out of the batteries. No battery issues on any other boats we've owned. I think I should get more than two years out of the batteries on this boat, too.

Best wishes,
Jim B.

[Dreamer]

Jim,

I have a somewhat different philosophy, do it right and go for overkill the first time! The two 275 AH Lifeline 8-D AGMs installed in 2006 are going strong.


They get charged and maintained by the 80 amp charger that is part of the 2000w Outback Inverter.



6 Years and all is humming along. I just replaced the Optima start batteries.

[JamesTXSD]

That is a great set-up, Roger! I'd have to take a Sawz-all to the 25 to fit it in. 27s barely clear to fit in the allotted space. I haven't done any measuring, but a couple 6v golf cart batteries would be my preference for the house side.

Kudos to your forethought.

Best wishes,
Jim

[Aurelia]

For just a replacement charger, this would be one of the most capable options although a bass pro shop unit would likely work better than what you had (my guest charger was flaky as well). I have one of the sterling units and they are really top shelf in build and features but pricey. This one has a basic battery meter built in or a remote option as well.

http://sterling-power-usa.com/sterlingpowerusaprocharge12volt10ampbatterycharger-pcu1210-two-bank.aspx

Or consider two of these smart solid state type units. I have used them with great results as well.

http://smartercharger.com/products/batterychargers/ctek-multi-us-4-3/

For monitoring, you can get pretty fancy but in the end I decided I really just wanted to know a good voltage status at a glance so I put one of these on the house bank and mounted the box at the helm. Just keep in mind it will rise a fall as loads rise and fall and is most relavant when loads are switched off. I would occaisionally switch off house loads and let the house rest for a minute then check the meter. It was also a nice thing to check first thing in the morning so see how you sit at the start of the day.

http://www.impactbattery.com/12v-upg-voltminder-digital-volt-meter.html

[Captains Cat]

Wow, Roger, those 8-D batteries weigh 156# each. You must have had help!

Charlie

[thataway]

Rob gives you some good advice, but in a couple of places i disagree. There are some very good general purpose batteries which will work very well in boats.---hard to find much more vibration than on some of our interstates in a boat. The boat's batteries are often set well aft, in the best riding part of the boat. I discovered that Sam's club has East Pen AGM Group 31 batteries (appear to be identical to Sears Platinum AGM which are also made by East Pen.)

The other issue is equalization. There is good information on using pulse technology to prevent sulfating and stratification. A unit like Power Pulse is in the $45 to $65 range, and does not use external power, and is active all of the time. The high frequency pulse units prevent sulfating and stratification and Equalizing trys to correct sulfating and stratification after it occurs. I consider the equalization to be a bit harder on the batteries than a power pulse unit. Many of the RVs are using various pulse technologies. I have been using the pulse technology on my RV's for over 15 years, and on some boats.

Always remember that 50% discharge is 12.2 volts. (Resting state). I also like the link monitors since they give amps in and amps out--so in some ways that is a bit more accurate measure of amount of discharge.

2 years is way low. On my Road Trek I got over 8 years (sold the RV at that point, and I know that new owner didn't replace for another 2 years!) on the house batteries--and those were used about every 6 months--the rest of the time had a solar charge and the pulse technologies.

It is easy to have times when we let the batteries run too low, leave something on, have a charger fail etc.

As for the chargers--Victron and MasterVolt get my vote in the current lineup. These are heavy duty chargers which are made for commercial type of applications.

[journey on]

Batteries are a great topic of conversation around boat owners. Charging, mounting, type, longevity; all opinions are valid.

That said, here's my experience with Interstate. When we were cruising on Our Journey, a 36' sailboat, good lead acid batteries were beyond my ken, and they still are. I did buy an Interstate, 4D, deep cycle when we were cruising the East Coast. That meant the battery got cycled once per day and rarely had a full, 24 hr charge. I think I kept the battery in the "good" area of % discharge (>50%.) That said, the Interstate died in about a year. Discussing that fact with an Interstate dealer, he pointed out that a years use was 365 cycles, and that was about what the battery's rating. In other words, I got what I paid for, according to Interstate. I don't think that Interstates are better or worse that any other "good" battery, so I began to realize that normal lead acid "deep cycle" batteries didn't do my job.

That's when I went to golf cart batteries for the house bank. I've never worn out one of those. Three sets: first the boat was sold: second, in use on the trailer (6 years old): third in use in the boat (1 year old.)

The starting battery which the factory gave me was an Interstate, and since it was never discharged, lasted for about 5 years and then died. That was reasonable.

So my conclusion is that if you want a battery that will accept a large number of cycles. Interstate ain't it. You have to change battery types. I picked golf cart batteries (lead acid,) because they were the cheapest.

Boris

[Robert H. Wilkinson]

Roger - nice setup including the charger. I bet your glad you haven't had to replace those 8D's 9 times in the last 6 years like Jim! Some boats use a larger house bank and run all A/C loads off the inverter. Charging the batteries with a D/C generator - which is more efficient.

Greg - good advise on monitoring

Jim - Boris gives good advise on the golf carts. If you need the capacity 2 - 6V cells in series are better than 2 - 12V in parallel. They charge more evenly and normally do not cannibalize each other.

Bob - the pulse technology is a good option and probably cheaper than trying to find a charger with the ability to equalize your batteries. I should have pointed out that equalizing should only be done at most once a month and only for a very limited time.
The starting battery is mainly the 1 that should be marine rated. Deep cycle batteries are by nature built stronger (heavier plates, etc.) so they will withstand more vibration.
You are right - unlike the back of the school bus, the stern of a boat is the smoothest riding. This is 1 reason I don't like seeing batteries put in the cuddy.

Boris - deep cycle batteries are built to spec for a service life of X # of cycles, dependant on the percent of discharge. 365 sounds a bit low. I believe the Surrete 460 cells in my off grid system have an estimated service life of 2000 cycles at a drawdown of 50%. But then they are built in Canada!

Regards, Rob

[Dreamer]

Surette, or Rolls batteries aren't usually mentioned here on this forum. We had two on our Krogen. Two 6 volters were 850 amp hours each and over $ 3000! Still working perfectly since installed in 2001 I'm told by the new owner. That's under $300 per year. They reinforce my original premise of overkill is better! By comparrison, the 2 Lifeline 8-Ds were $900.

[Grumpy]

Jim,
It appears that even two cups of coffee is not enough for my brain

Correction to my previous post:-
My battery charge indication unit is a Victron BMV-600S and is doing a fine job.

M

[Captains Cat]

Pretty good tutorial HERE on installing a battery monitor. It was clear even to me.

Charlie

[JamesTXSD]

Thanks, Charlie - I have saved that link!