Problem with AC Power

RobMcClain · Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:05 pm Post subject: Problem with AC Power

My wife and I have finally taken physical possession of our recently purchased a 2006 23' Venture. It is headed from the East Coast to the West. We had it hauled to the midway point which was our daughter's house, and now we'll haul it home. We hope to enjoy a brief maiden voyage on Saturday.

The DC power system works just fine, but we've apparently got a short in the AC 110 system. Once the power cord is connected and I flip on the AC main the breaker trips. I replaced the 12v GFI outlet located nearby the pilot seat because I thought it was part of the problem since it would not reset, but apparently it is not because the problem still occurs with the new outlet.

Unfortunatly, when it comes to electricity I have little knowledge and no idea how to troubleshoot this problem. "Electricity for Dummies" is way above my level... The DC system works fine so the problem appears isolated within the AC system. In the event this might be useful to know, the boat is equipped with a Xantrex PRO 1800 inverter and a Guest battery charger.

Any thoughts or suggestions on how to troubleshoot this short would be greatly appreciated. This was not a problem experienced by the previous owner so it's a new development. Thanks!!

Rob

windwalker · Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 10:32 pm Post subject: Venture 23 elec. problems

First off congrats on your new boat I'm sure that you will have a great time once you get the bugs worked out, the first issue is the 120v gfci it will not reset without power running to it, secondly does the boat have a roof mount a/c unit to enclude a separate breaker? Or is the a/c unit tripping the boats main breaker? Are you powering the boat from your daughters house and if so you will need a minimum of a 12 gauge extension cord pluged into a 20 amp house circuit.

Robert H. Wilkinson · Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 10:56 pm Post subject: Problems with ac power

You can try isolating circuits or disconnecting components(like the battery charger) 1 at a time and see if it makes any difference. The inverter should be off when connected to shore power - its output should not be connected to the same breaker box when shore power is live. You can also check the breaker itself, sometimes they get weak with age.

Good luck and don't stand barefoot in the bilge!! Smile

Regards, Rob

forrest · Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:47 pm Post subject:

Check polarity of power source at the outlet you are using at your daughter's house.

thataway · Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:01 am Post subject:

Unfortunately 120 AC problems are not easy to trouble shoot from afar. First look for an obvious short. Turn off all of the breakers down stream of the main breaker (assume that you have a factory installed) panel.

Generally the 120 volt AC systems are set up for 30 amps, and use a specific 30 amp twist lock plug.

Check to see if the inverter has a charger (model number would help here, as well as size--agree that the inverter should be off.

There should be a "reverse polarity light" if that comes on, check the to be sure that the adaptor you used for the 30 amp cord twist lock plug to the spade type 120 connector is wired correctly. The 30 amp cord is 10 gauge.

There is a very nice set you can buy at the big box stores. It has a digital volt meter, a gadget you plug into a standard plug, which shows if the polarity is correct and ground and neutral are correct. (120 volt AC has one hot leg--that is black, the ground is green and the common or neutral is white). There is also a neon light, with a probe which will show where the 120 volt aC current is flowing. This can be used to trace circuits.

I will be in your home area in about a week, and would be glad to take a few hours to look at your boat. (We pick up the boat at Powell, and will be driving to S. Calif about a week from now).

It is probably a simple problem--but again, 120 volts can be dangerous, so be cautious.

chimoii · Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:43 am Post subject:

Bob's advice is really good. We also have a Venture and you are going to love the boat. We also had a problem with the tripping breaker that showed up one day. I am actually not bad with electrics but as Bob said, it can be dangerous so I got professional help.

As Bob suggested he started by turning off all the downstream breakers. The main breaker held when we flicked it. Turning on individual breakers one at a time gave us the problem circuit. From that point tracing the short was a lot easier. Turned out to be a loose wire behind the main panel. Easily fixed. It cost me an hour of a marine electrician and was worth every cent.

I now go over a my wiring from time to time and tug at connections. It makes me feel better.

jennykatz · Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:49 am Post subject: ac power cc-23

This is the panel on a cc-23

Main 30 amps
1- 15 amp wired to guest 10amp charger
2- 15 amp wired to plug (gfci) and fridge if you have one
3- 30 amp plug for A/C or extra plugs .Thats how my cc-23 is wired from factory I have boat number 03 It's and 06 model

Rob is your boat the same as mine does it have a fridge unplug your 30 amp cord then pull out fridge and start checking for loose connections .Does your main breaker not set ? or is it others ? Call me if you like and I can walk you through it .send me pm for phone Jim

RobMcClain · Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:22 pm Post subject:

Sorry for the delayed response. As a side note we are in Texas where my daughter and her husband are pilots in the USAF and fly the B-1. I got to take a spin in the simulator and what a realistic ride! Also got to take a look inside a real one and I can't begin to imagine what it must be like to actually fly. Watching my little ballerina excel in this unique occupation is quite amazing and emotionally overwhelming.

So, back to the topic at hand. I belive my first post was a bit misleading. Yes Jim, my setup is identical to the photo you posted. To clarify the problem a bit further, I have all the breakers off and when I connect the power cord all is fine. It is then when I switch on the main power breaker - with all the other breakers still in their off position - when the GFI breaker in the house outlet I'm plugged into then blows. As a result I cannot power up the 110 circuitry in the boat. So I am blowing the circuit in the house plug and not within the boat, but as a result the boat cannot power up. I am assuming the power problem is within the boat since it occurs when I through the boat's main 110 breaker. I am using a properly manufactured 30 amp cord that has a traditional 110 plug on the other end for use with 110 circuitry.

Bob, I greatly appreciate your offer. We problaby won't be back home in Summerlin (i.e., Las Vegas) until around July 19, so I'm not sure that will fit your schedule. I will PM you separately.

Rob

Captains Cat · Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 6:33 am Post subject:

GFI breakers can be very sensitive. I'd try it in a non-GFI outlet and see what it does. If it blows a regular breaker, you will know you have a real short..

Charlie

RobMcClain · Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:49 am Post subject:

All is working well. The problem was nothing more than an overly sensitive GFI circuit in the house. Once I moved the plug to another house outlet everything on the boat powered up just fine. This reminds me of the guy who couldn't get his computer or TV started and never bothered to check if it was plugged in. Thanks to everyone!

Rob

Captains Cat · Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:24 am Post subject:

I'm not right very often (ask my wife Love

) but every once in awhile... Smile

Charlie

jennykatz · Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:39 am Post subject: ac power

C-brats come through again what a wonderful site and group of people

thataway · Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 9:55 pm Post subject:

Glad to hear it is OK. One other possibility is if you have a galvanic isolator (which my Tom Cat had, but the 25 did not have--so not sure when these were put in)--it can trip a GFI. I use non GRI for the boat at home, but GFI for tools etc.

dave · Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 2:43 pm Post subject:

I am really relieved the problem was not with the boat.

RobMcClain · Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 4:43 pm Post subject:

Hi Dave! A bit more follow-up... we took Cocoon out yesterday for our maiden voyage and had our daughter and her husband along. Trailering it was great. Our 2008 Sequoia pulled it effortlessly and it rode beautifully on the trailer. At the lakes I am used to in California there is always a dock at the ramp so there is no need for anyone to be on the boat to drive it off - just drift it back with lines and tie it up to the dock. At the lake we visited the ramps were absent docks immediately adjacent to them. There were docks, but they were about 40' away from the ramp and only meant for hop on and hop off use. We held back at the ramp and as we readied the boat we watched several folks launch or retrieve. Once we understood the practice we took the plunge. The launch went perfectly, as did the retrieval later in the day. Once on the lake the boat handled quite well. My only glitch was I apparently misunderstood the fuel pump diagram regarding which tank was feeding, so I unintentionally set the switch to "off" position. It didn't take more than a few minutes to realize there was a problem. I think I understand it now... Embarassed

After seeing some of the lake we anchored and enjoyed lunch and a swim. It was great day and a very successful introductory voyage. Everyone on board loved the boat, especially Mary. We start the drive home tomorrow morning with boat in tow. I anticipate we'll make it a 3 day trip.

Rob