Bilge Pump Wiring

[tpbrady]

On my CD-25, the cabin bilge pump is set up with separate DC connections for the the float switch and the helm switch. The original Rule 1100 Automatic pump was designed this way. Last summer the float switch in this pump failed in the on position and since then has completely failed. The manual switch still works. I have a spare float switch and plan to disconnect the DC to the original Rule float switch and seal up the end of the wire. I will then splice the DC from the battery (it is fused at the battery) to the float switch and then connect the float switch DC out to the same DC input on the bilge pump as the switch from the helm. Basically, this means the bilge pump can be powered by the float switch "floating" for manually from the helm. Are there any flaws in this approach that I am missing?"

[Aurelia]

So are you connecting the 12v direct battery feed to the 12v coming off the switch at the helm? That is how is sounds.

[journey on]

It sounds like you want to by-pass the internal float switch by using the manual/external power in. What you're doing (if I understand it) is paralleling a feed from the external float switch with switched power from the control panel, external to the pump..

I'm not certain of the internal wiring within the switch but sounds as if it would work. Consider putting a diode in the feed from the switched power, just to be safe. Then try it.

The new version of that pump has a solid state float switch and the circuitry is different. I just changed pumps, they are cheap.

Boris

[tpbrady]

That's correct. It will have two DC sources much like it does now. It will come on if the float switch is activated or if the helm switch is activated. This should result in a parallel circuit if both are activated. Both are fused.

[Jack in Alaska]

The original Rule 1100 bilge pump failed. I purchased a new Rule 1100 and it is different but wired the same. The new one has a place on the side that allows the pump to run by just putting your finger on it and that works.
Yesterday the pump came on to clear bilge water but would not shut off after the water was gone. I turned the cabin switch to off...pump stopped.
After returning from fishing my friend was washing down the boat and heard something running in the bilge. It was the new pump. He turned the cabin switch on/off/on/off but it did not affect the pump. He then turned the master batt. switch to off...pump kept on running. I took the wires off of the batt. and it stopped.

1. Is it normal to have the pump 12v by pass the batt. switch??
2. I think there is something wrong with the pump as it will not quit when the water is gone.

Any ideas????

[hardee]

I just replaced a 1100 RuleMate too. The continued running was a defect that I found in researching the pumps, but was told it was a problem early on that had been cured. I have a 500 that was in the stern that is going to get replaced with a 1500 soon. They (RuleMate) went to the fancy new technology that senses oil or fuel and will not run if that is what is in the bilge. The new 500, 800 and 1100 are the ones with the new tech switch. That is why I went with the 1500 for the stern replacement.

Hope you bought that pump at West Marine, take it back and get a 1500 if it will fit into the space.

Harvey
SleepyC

[Sea Wolf]

Question:

1. Is it normal to have the pump 12v by pass the batt. switch?

Yes, you want the pump to be able to operate on a moored boat to save it in a rainstorm, even though the battery switch is turned off.

This assumes that the pump has a float switch in series with it to activate it and then turn it off when the boat is pumped out.

This also applies to saving the boat with a developing leak, such as at a through hull, although the pump's performance will be limited by the capacity of the battery.

The pump must also have a fuse in line with it when directly connected to the battery, in order to safely deal with wiring shorts, motor burn out, etc.

Joe.

[Jack in Alaska]

After hours of thought, crawling around in my boat looking under gunnels at wiring , putting extra joints in my lower arms, cutting many ty-wraps to loosen wiring bundles, checking fuses, wire continuity etc. The damn bilge pump works like it should.

It works on/off with the cabin switch but is off when the batt. switch is off.
It works with the float switch all the time 24/7 and turns off after 5 secs with the batt. switch in any position...both/off/1/2.

What a struggle. Turns out that the wires into the bulge to the pump were not coded correctly. Brown/stripe did not go to brown/stripe but to solid brown, and viva versa. Don't know why. Don't care.......it works. Time to go fishing.

[dread]

If I follow what you guys are saying, if I turn the bilge pump switch on at the electrical panel by the helm, the cabin bilge pump will go on, whether or not there is water in the bilge. If I turn the switch off, the pump will (sorry, should) turn on automatically when water gets into the bilge.

That's the pump under the step from the cockpit to the cabin.

I think I am understanding from the discussion that there is a second bilge pump in the cockpit. Does that operate the same way?

Are you suggesting that I replace both Rule 1000 with Rule 1500?

[hardee]

Don,

This thread started a couple years back. Still good info though. That is about when Rule changed the 500, 750 and 1100 auto (float) switch systems from a true "float" switch to an electronic sensor type that will not turn on if oil or gas are detected. It does turn on for water if there is power to the pump. The way to tell if it is this kind of switch is that it will have that "touch to test" spot on the side. Those are the pumps that were reported to have "failure to turn off" issues and though Rule said that problem was fixed, there were still reports of it happening. That is why I did not want to replace with that type of switch. At the time I could not find an alternative for the 1100 that I had that would fit in the spot under the door step so I was kind of forced into using their new version 1100. It was replaced last spring. Worked OK for the season. I did choose to replace the aft pump with a higher output, (the in-place one was a 500), and so now I am installing a 1500, that has the real float switch, in the aft position. It is significantly larger than the 500 and so I am having to redo my Racor filters to accommodate the new pump.

I'm not a wiring guru so cant help you much there. Fortunately the Rule pumps all had the same color codes so I just swapped each color to the same.

My switch panel at the helm has one switch for both pumps, "ON - OFF - AUTO" and there is a fuse at the battery for the pumps. If the switch is in ON position both pumps will run. If in OFF, neither will run. If in AUTO then which ever pump has water will run until the water is out, then shut off. YMMV depending on your wiring set up.

Hope that helps.

Harvey
SleepyC

[richnkay]

Don,
I also have a 2006 25 cruiser and there is a good chance our boats are set up the same way. Yes there is a second pump under the cockpit. If you unscrew the round hand hold at the center rear of the cockpit your bilge pump should lie directly below. This bilge pump should have a float switch of some type attached. The pump can be operated by turning on the bilge pump switch at the helm station if you have your battery switch in a position other than "off". The bilge pump should also have a wire running directly from the pump to the positive terminal of your house battery. If it is wired correctly the pump will turn on if water in the bilge gets high enough to raise and engage the float switch, regardless of which position the battery switch is in, the pump should work even if the battery switch is turned off. It is easy enough to test this. If it a movable float switch just raise the float with your finger until (hopefully) the bilge pump starts. If it is the water sensor type with no movable parts it should tell you where to place your finger to test on the side of the water sensor.

Good idea to check the pump frequently, I, and by reading other posts, lots of folks have had problems and have been through the bilge pump replacement process until they are pretty familiar with the system and how it should work.

I replaced mine with a Johnson removable motor cartridge pump and also purchased a spare motor cartridge. Its been in a couple years now and so far has worked well. Wired in like the original Rule pump.

Hope your pump is working like it should.
Rich

[hardee]

HERE"S A TIP

Sorry, about that size, it would let me do the regular large.
ANYWAY.

1. Go to WalMart
2. Buy a plastic ($5) turkey baster.
3. EVERY trip, use the turky baster to evacuate the water from the bulge until it is dry as possible, THEN
4. Use a sponge to get out hte remaining moisture.
5. Leave the bilge open to air out and dry.

The above will add to your bilge pump life. I learned the hard way, and my pump failed after 300 hours of boating because I was not cleaning out the under the door bilge to clear dry after every trip.

You are welcome,

Harvey
[b]SleepyC[/b]

[billtwymank]

******

Our C-Dory TomCat owners manual has BILGE PUMP information on page 43 & 44.

******

[colbysmith]

I just replaced the bilge pump on my C-22 with the newer 11gph Rule that has the electronic float switch. (Touch the side of it to test it.) It does continue to run once the water is pumped out, but only for a short time. As in maybe 5-10 secs. I also added a second back up pump....a 850gph basic model. And I added a separate float switch for that one. I wired it pretty much what it sounds like you did. That is, I ran a wire right from the battery to the float switch, and then ran the wire from the float switch to the pump. I also ran a wire from a switch to the same connection between the float switch and pump. So the pump can be powered either from the cabin switch (manual) or from the float switch (automatic). Since this is in parallel with the battery, there should be no problem even if the float and manual switch were on at the same time.

[ferret30]

Anyone know who makes the thru hull fittings used on the port side for bilge output? I think it's the same part as the one used for the sink overboard drain.