Total costs of ownership (cd22)

ajmk12 · Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 1:31 pm Post subject: Total costs of ownership (cd22)

I am new to cbrats but am keenly interested in the boats. Took a factory tour a couple of years ago while out there for the SBS. Looking on this site and elsewhere the 22's can be had w/ trailer for 40k-50ish. I live inland now near Flathead Lk in MT but am only a few years from retiring and moving to costal area of Pacific NW or SE AK.

Aside from the boat payment...what are the routine maintenance costs for basic stuff not counting operating expenses. Boat will not be in salt for 3 years (maybe one 10 day trip to the coast per year in years 2 and 3 to fish...). Also what hazards or pitfalls do I face in that I do not currently have arrangements for indoor storage here. Boat would be parked here at the house but won't fit in garage. Obviously water tanks have to be empty in winter but are there other problems I may face? Temps here in winter avg 28 or so with a couple of cold weeks at 0 or below every year.

Thanks for your input

AJ

westward · Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 1:46 pm Post subject:

I have heard more than once that a boat owner can pretty much count on 10% of the boat's cost/year for fixed and variable expenses. This is an average and would obviously be affected by a particular owner's use and storage situations. I'm not sure how you would separate out the operating expenses. From my experience the cost of fuel is one of the smaller costs in boat ownership, especially with the 3 C-Dory's I've owned. Some of the major expenses that come to mind are: moorage/storage, upgrades and accessories (esp. electronics and kicker motors), motor maintenance/repairs, canvas work, fiberglass repairs, and others I'm not thinking about. Keeping a boat moored in the water will add expense in many ways, but it sure is convenient. Insurance has been surprisingly inexpensive. I hate to say what the cost/pound is for the fish I've caught!!! You are smart to be thinking about this IMHO. Few things sadder in boat ownership than an owner who can't afford to use the boat. Best, Mike.

westward · Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 1:49 pm Post subject:

forgot one major thing: If you don't already have a suitable tow vehicle, purchasing and maintaining one will be a big indirect cost.

ajmk12 · Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 1:51 pm Post subject:

Wow that was quick. Thx for the reply Mike, I just sold a Customweld jet, my better half didn't like the rough ride, noise, and 40 gal of gas a day...she is more into the leisurely cruising around, loved camping out of the boat and likes fishing so I am thinking the CD's might be just the ticket. Won't even have to bring a tent...

c-ness · Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 3:26 pm Post subject:

The answer will depend on many factors such as whether you have a suitable tow vehicle, the condition of the boat when you buy it, what kind of things you want on the boat, and you tolerance for things that may not be perfect. Last year I ran the figures and they were not pretty. Things like oil changes, new filters, new impellers, lubrication of the lower unit, etc add up quickly. But I also noted that much of the cost goes to labor. Around here labor runs about $100 per hour! So I decided to try doing some of these things myself. So far this year I've added my own keel guard, painted the bottom, fixed some gelcoat, and will be changing my own oil. I have a good mechanic and will use him when necessary, but I want to be able to do my own routine maintenance. I'm not a handy guy, but I figure I can learn. So if you can and want to work on your boat you can save a lot of money and have some fun doing so.

By tha way, welcome to the site!

colobear · Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 7:25 pm Post subject:

If you don't have covered storage you might want to look into one of the 10x20' open sided shelters you can find at Costco or on-line for about $200. They will cover the boat from engines to forward of the cabin leaving about 4ft of the bow exposed. Stock they are too low for the boat so I got some electrical steel conduit of the appropriate size, cut it to about 4 or 5' lengths, did some minor drilling and fitting and put them in as extensions so the cover is about 11 1/2 ft high at the center. That has made a big difference in day to day wear and tear due to weather/birds, etc. Mine has been on for about five years and has withstood pretty high winds (with lots of tiedowns), I had to replace the original white plastic top fabric a year or so ago. Got two 10x20 blue tarps from Costco, they work fine, will replace them this fall and for about $25/pair they are cheap enough to not be an issue Doing your own maintenance saves a whole lot and is not too hard, depending of course on your own comfort zone. I routinely change my engine oil, lower unit oil, spark plugs, water pump impellers, oil filters gas/water separator filters without too much trouble. You can find good information here on the site about doing any or all of that. I would go to a mechanic to have valves and timing adjusted. I think you will have higher expenses the first two or three years as you add more stuff to the boat. I had to replace all trailer tires this last year, not because of mileage but because of weathering, they held up for five years. I replaced all trailer brake lines and brakes, pads, rotors, calipers, etc. this last year, nothing had failed but I felt it was time to do so. Doing routine maintenance really pays off as it does in most things

teflonmom · Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 7:42 pm Post subject: Cost of ownership

keeping the boat out of the weather will pay off big time in keeping your baby in good shape. Also it will pay in preventing excess depreciation. This will be important if you ever sell your boat.
We had a total canvas cover made by a local canvas shop. It covered everything to below the color strip. It cost about $1000.00. It was a big hunk of canvas and took about 15 minutes to put on and remove. It kept the bird droppings and tree sap off the gel coat. My boat looked like new when we sold it.

ghone · Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 8:19 pm Post subject:

The ongoing costs can be pretty variable. The normal idea is approximately 10 percent of purchase price as has been said. This gives an owner a fair bit of leeway in a boat like the c dory. Once it has it's gear installed electronics, dinghy, canvas etc. these are good for a long time. If one spent 50k upfront this gives you 5 k annual to spend. Your first 100 hours will be an oil change and check over by your mechanic about $350. Leaving $4650. Gas is $5 a gallon gives you say 900 gallons. At normal averages of 3-4 miles per gallon you can boat for 3000 to 4000 miles a year. Many of us are lucky to go a fraction of that, so you can do a lot of towing and boating every year. Insurance is maybe $700 a year tires about $500 every few years. If you figure on that 10 percent you won't be surprised. This allows new toys added once in a while too. My 22 is home to me so both it and the truck get what they need for reliable operation. I spent more than 50 up front as I bought new in Canada, but even with a 10,000 mile tow and 90 engine hours last year I didn't spend the 10 percent. Had a world of great experiences which one can't put a price on. I always suggest get the boat and get on out there it's a great life with wonderful c brat friends. George CoolSmile

sculpin · Posted: Sun May 06, 2012 12:40 pm Post subject: Costs of Ownership

There may be a psychological risk of ownership if you have too much in the boat and are not using it very much over a period of several years. In mid winter you look at it sitting in the driveway and think: "There's $50,000 sitting there, plus insurance, taxes, etc and I haven't been out for over a year.......I really should think about selling the boat." Most of our wives aren't that much into boats and they may be thinking the same thing. It's only natural and it is a reasonable question if you have a lot of money tied up in a boat that you aren't using much. For me, it is important to have a boat that doesn't put the "pressure to divest" on me. I'd rather have an older paid-off boat that isn't depreciating very fast even though it may not be perfect. My current boat fulfills that criteria and I feel at peace with the economic side of the equation. It actually costs very little to keep it ready for trips and would cost even less if I did more of the maintenence myself. I just finished putting 3 coats of bottom paint on it and did it by jacking up the boat a foot or so above the trailer so I could sand and paint. It turned out fine and I got satisfaction out of the job. I paid the local mechanic $700 for servicing both engines, changing the impeller on the main, fixing the steering, etc, etc. These were things I probably could have done myself for very little, but it was worth it to me to have him do it. Insurance is about $120 per year, taxes are about $100 per year, every couple of years I'll spend $1000 or so on some maintenence issue but that's about it. Our boat is not a C Dory, it's a Nexus Dory, similar in size and configuration to a C Dory 22 Angler, but I think the the idea on costs and "pressure to divest" is kind of a universal truth in pleasure boats. (By the way, I do plan to buy a C Dory because I want to keep one up in Wrangell, Ak and I think it would be easier to keep a C-Dory up there remotely than my wood dory.)

Good luck on your boat search.

Steve

MikeMac · Posted: Sun May 06, 2012 12:46 pm Post subject: Total costs of ownership (cd22)

The 10% rule is usually pretty good, but you have to expect "bumps" in the cost curve from unusual events, often later in the life of the boat, like transom repairs, new trailers, and such. Whenever I think I'm getting off light some year there is something ahead that will take up the slack.

DaveS · Posted: Sun May 06, 2012 1:52 pm Post subject:

AJ, don't even consider the cost of owning a boat....just consider the financial loss incurred in Psychiatric Consultation for the stress of everyday life that you dole out by not having the boat to eliminate the need for the professional guidance. Laughing

(In recent years the C-Dory has held value better than most financial investments..... Wink

). (Just ask those that are looking for a "really good deal" on a used C-Dory).

maryvmcclain · Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 9:46 pm Post subject:

As a CPA, I smiled when I read your post. TCO on a boat is always more than you think it will be... and always more in the year you can't afford it.

Since we have been in the C-Dory market, I have looked at the depreciation/resale value factor... and I can't really figure out the logic in C-Dory pricing. The used boats all seem to run about the same price, regardless of year or condition.. and the owners seem to put unusually high values on electronic gadgets (which, IMHO, can always be swapped out less expensively, with newer better stuff)

Having always owned a boat.. and having a husband addicted to reading Yachtworld and checking out used boats at the local brokerages.. we can definately vouch for the fact that C-Dorys do not depreciate like other boats. It seems to be simply that the supply has been less than the demand... and the uniqueness of the trailerabilty and livability of these boats.

No matter what, whether its a trailerable boat, or a boat in the marina... we are always thinking we don't use it enough and that it is a luxury... And we are always improving the boat, so figure a few hundred dollars a month for West Marine purchases. Still, this keeps hubby busy and out of trouble and happy. I wish he liked puttering on the house as much as he liked improving the boat.

You are very lucky to be able to store it at your house. Buy a boat that you can pay cash for and store at home. The expense that has bothered me the most is storage costs.. and I'm super glad to never have a boat payment. Owning a boat..is a necessity to us...we cannot seem to live boat-less and be happy. But we have more fun with paid off boats... even kayaks or a dinghy. So, if you have never owned a boat before... buy something small and affordable first.
Mary

maryvmcclain · Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 10:33 pm Post subject:

PS: Two more costs to consider: one cost of ownership is the 3ft-itis that everyone ends up with. You think you have the boat you want for the rest of your life... and then you start lusting for something bigger, different, whatever.... and of course, none of your accessories or gadgets are right for the new boat anyway. Whatever boat you decide on... if you find you love boating, count on the fact that you will change out your boat within 5-7 years, maybe sooner. Life changes, and you always lose money on a boat or a car (unless you buy a serious fixer upper, do a lot of work and create sweat equity).

The other cost is your time. It seems like for every 2-3 hours of boating, Rob spends at least a hour in maintenance... even if its just washing it down. It's a lot of work.. if he demanded equal participation in the maintenence I would not be "for" boat ownership. Fortunately, he seems to enjoy taking care of it so that I am able to enjoy the fun part.

alanc · Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 8:51 am Post subject:

I budget 5000$ per year, fuel not included. If you use the old "200 bucks per foot" rule of thumb, thats about right for a cd22. I do not own a trailer, so road costs are low. In my state (CT) you pay property tax on the trailer, not the boat, up to a certain size anyway.

Of course, the 5K does not include anything catostrophic that may go wrong, knock on teak.

1TUBERIDER · Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 9:53 am Post subject:

Once the boat is paid for, same goes for the tow vehicle and storage area,
then it is just operating costs. Taxes cost around $300 and insurance is $250 per year. Motors cost me around $110 to change fluids and filters. Put a hundred dollars of gas in it which will be good for around 5 to 10 trips of fishing. Launch fees are $6 per launch or $90 a year. Daily provisions usually cheap and smiles at the end of the day more than the cost of going out.

Whats really expensive is fishing gear! I cannot image a summer being any fun
if you are not doing fun things. Lots of options here. Sometimes I have to decide between surfing, boating-fishing, shooting, windsurfing and so on. Regardless of which I choose I am going to enjoy. Now its up to you to decide if its worth buying your "toys" to enjoy life. My $3000 surfboard is really expensive for a surfboard but its light, stiff and really performs well. I could have purchased a similar model for 1/2 the price but it was not light and stiff. My friend has gone thru around $6000 looking for the right board and has not been happy with any of them. His last greatest purchase he is disappointed with. It was the 1/2 price version. He should of spent the extra $ because he is now out over twice what my board cost.

My boat is cheap to operate. I doubt if I spend $750 a year. This summer maybe more because I intend to use it more. Yeah we have a salmon season. Caught our first 28" king last weekend. First one in a few years. That is worth quite a bit to me. Had a great day.

Only you can decide if its worth it.