Scotty Downrigger mounting - gunwale or handrail?

SPrice

Hello,
I’m close to becoming a new C-Dory owner and have a question about mounting a Scotty downrigger on a 25' 2007 cruiser.

The hand rails in the cockpit are very tall (10"). I would rather not mount the downrigger on the hand rail mainly due to weight and torque support concerns.

The downriggers I will be installing are the new Scotty 2106. They use a 15# ball and have a boom to 60". Also there may be need in the future of using the Scotty base for a pot puller which would also be a tremendous load on the hand rail and give more reason to mount on a gunwale and not a handrail.

I have envisioned removing the hand rails, filling the holes and then going about mounting the downriggers on the gunwale as usual. Also using Scotty rod holder bases on the gunwale too.

I have looked at numerous other brands of boats as to having hand rails or not. Many boats with the same freeboard as a 25' C-Dory do not have hand rails at all.

Ranger tugs have made a removable portion of the handrails for this exact situation. Great job Ranger!

So.., if you have mounted a Heavy Duty Electric Scotty downrigger on the handrail and have found it to be very supportive and or not, please let me know.

Thank you

Scott

rogerbum · Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:53 pm Post subject:

I first mounted the 60" boom Scotty downriggers on the handrail on my Tomcat. If you use a piece of starboard (or other board) with the Scotty rail mounts (as you are supposed to), the torque in the outward direction is supported by the board. Also, if you put the down rigger mount so that it straddles a vertical portion of the rail, you can use a rubberized U-bolt to prevent torque in the opposite direction. With the heavy duty rails on the 25 and the Tomcat, this is plenty strong.

However, the rail mounts get in the way of canvas if you have a slant back canvas (like I do) or a camper back. Sure you can take the rail mounts on and off, but it does take some time, and the rail mount nuts provided by Scotty are easy to lose overboard (BTDT). So, I wound up putting in the tall Scotty mounts on the flat area just aft of the aft rail. There's plenty of space there on the Tomcat and I think enough space on the 25. The low profile mounts don't interfere with the canvas, and it's easier to take the tall swivel mounts off.

SPrice · Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:19 am Post subject:

Thanks Roger,
Im not too sure if there is enough room. I can not remember but one side or the other has a water fill in that area.

I'll have to take a mount to the boat and see if it will fit there. But I think it is a reach (physical reach) to that point due to the stern seat at each side of the engine well.

Also the camper back canvas would be snug there too (?)

thank you,

Scott

Tom on Icarus · Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:42 am Post subject:

Scott,
I have been recently figuring out the downrigger placement question too on our, new to us, CD25. The previous owner had cut and capped the rails just ahead of the middle upright and mounted the base plate for the downriggers on the gunnel about mid cockpit. This, for me, was too far forward for the downriggers so I played around with rail mounts. I have not tested them out on the water yet but at home, with boom extended, a 15 lb. ball attached and me pulling and bouncing the weight to simulate a hang up, the rail seems to be quite sturdy.
I know that putting the mounts on and off would be a bit more work, but not much considering you have to undo the riggers anyway to put them away.
On whether to remove the rails totally, here is my opinion: On the CD25, I feel that the rail is a good safety feature. Since the floor is raised to self bailing level, the gunnel height is quite low from the inside of the cockpit. Without the rail a person is more likely to go overboard if a slip occurs while leaning out. Anyone who has ever fished will know how easy that is to occur. I reinstalled the cut off portion of the rail on my boat after going with the rail mounts. This was not a problem on our CD22 as the inside gunnel height was much higher, needing no safety rail and allowing the downrigger mounts to be located just forward of the lazarettes.
Hope this helps. Cheers, Beer

Tom

SPrice · Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:15 am Post subject:

Hello Tom,
Thank you for the post. Yes I would agree with your that mid cock pit location was too far forward for the downrigger.

In your opinion what if I were to cut the hand rail off just aft of the vertical handrail support? Then place the dowrigger along the gunnel just aft of that point?

Thank you again for posting. I have been trying to figure what to do for a while.

Scott

PS would you happen to have a picture of your placement and mount?

rogerbum · Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:53 am Post subject:

Scott see this link and look at the tall pedestal mounts - part number 2612. One thing I neglected to mention is that with these tall mounts the base can be a little bit under the rail as the pedestal rises above the rail - e.g. only the post needs to be outside of the rail. That allows the base mounts (fairly low profile) to be in far enough that they don't interfered with the canvas. While having the down riggers back in the corners makes them a little harder to reach (due to the seats in the 25), it also allows one to keep the cables farther away from the props in turns.

SPrice · Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:05 pm Post subject:

Hello Roger,

Would you happen to have a picture of this application on your boat?

I understand what you are saying. This might be a good alternative. Just concerned about the reach over the aft seat- were not getting younger!!

Thanks

Scott

rogerbum · Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:18 pm Post subject:

I don't have any pictures and the boat is up at EQ at present. I'll take some when I get the boat back. As for the long reach issue that can be largely mitigated by an number of different methods. First, you can put rod holders farther forward in the cockpit. The rods need not be mounted on the down riggers. Second, you can rotate the riggers forward when you need to - e.g. for putting the ball on. They also tilt up for the same purpose. Third, make up your own release clips on long 150lb mono (say 6-8') with clips on them that allow you to clamp them to the cable. Then set the down rigger stops so that the retrieve auto stops with the ball just below the surface. Clip the release between the ball and the rigger arm when the ball is just below the surface. Then you can use a boat hook to reach out and flip the release back into the cockpit. With the long mono on the release, you don't need to reach out to get to the clip and it makes life much easier.

SPrice · Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:28 pm Post subject:

Thanks again Roger.

Scott

Tom on Icarus · Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:30 pm Post subject:

Scott,
Sorry I have no pictures but I located my rail mounts just aft of the vertical support in order to be clear of the bimini top support. Keep in mind that the rail mounts are easily moved and no holes need to be drilled in the boat.
On cutting the rail aft of the vertical support, I say it will take away the lateral strength of the rail which is a result of the curve at the stern. I am not sure, but I also think that the gunnel is too narrow, at that point, for the Scotty mounting plate but that can be overcome easily with a custom bracket.
Cheers, Beer

Tom

Ted Osborne · Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:46 pm Post subject:

roger..."your description is just like what I have done on my Tomcat. Works great.

SPrice · Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:57 am Post subject:

Thank you everyone for your ideas.

I went back to look at the boat with the canvas on.

Since I do not have the best lower back - I think the best place for the downrigger will be on the rail at the point of the vertical bar to the gunnel. The hand rails are very sturdy especially at that point. It is also far enough aft to be a very good placement point for a downrigger.

I will have the taggery man in Mount Vernon stich on another peice of canvas to strenthen the spot where the mount will touch the canvas. BTW he is considered one of the best around.

I do agree that the hand rails for the CD25 are fairly necessary since the cockpit floor is raised and the gunnel is lower.

Great ideas and thank you. Now to tie some leaders and get ready!!

Scott

aa680531 · Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:37 am Post subject:

I am new to the c brats, had my C-dory now for close to a year. One of the reasons I joined was to get some advice about Mounting downriggers. I have a 16ft cruiser that already has 2 downriggers mounted on the very stern. Over the Winter I bought 2 Cannon downriggers with swivel bases, the idea being I would mount them on the gunwhales just aft of the cabin. My problem is the gunwhales and sides are all enclosed on my boat. There is no way to get underneath to put a nut on or provide a backing plates. I've searched around the website looking for others that asked the same question. Some show a mounting on a rail, I don't have a rail. Others show a cutaway on the inside wall to gain access to the gunwhale underside. Did these larger C-dorys come like that or was the whole cut? Do I need to cut a whole in that inside side wall? Any ideas or suggestions would be appreciated.

SPrice · Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:02 pm Post subject:

aa680531

I’m not sure about the CD-16.
The CD's I have seen (few 22, mostly 25) have access to the inside of the gunnels through either a round hatch for access to the fuel lines at the forward area of the cockpit, OR at the aft of the cockpit via the hatch for the battery compartment. The next avenue would be the shelf piece (used to store lines, fish equip, etc) on the inside of the starboard or port walls of the cockpit. You can un-screw the screws that hold it in and that can give you complete access to the inside of the gunnels.

If you do not have this you can get a 6" or 8" (diameter) round screw in hatch (+- $15.00 each) and then you need to cut a hole in the side and install the round hatch. That would give you access of the iside of the wall. Make sure you cut the hole in a place where you can access places you need to get to, such as your downrigger mounting, electrical connection for the downrigger and anything else you may install latter. I have long thin arms so I’m lucky I can reach pretty far inside that area.

The CD-25 has all the hatches and compartments I have written about. It's not difficult to cut the hole and install the round hatch. Make darn sure that if and when you make this cut that the various lines, tubing, steering components are not at that same point. You do NOT want to cut them too. Make a small hole and peek inside. If you can't figure out where those items are inside the wall. Scribe the hole and then use a dremmel cutter so you only cut material and the blade does not go into the void space inside of the wall where you can unknowingly cut those hoses or lines. Also seal the hole (hatch attachement) as you would if it were a high water intrusion area - like all holes in boats!!

It’s just another item on your list!

Scott

localboy · Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:56 pm Post subject:

I used one of the rail mounts. One caveat: we use it only for our put puller. As a result, I did NOT like the amount of torque it applied to the rail. For fishing I don't think it would be a problem as the forces are much less.

I removed it and placed the mount on the flat surface just forward of the rail, with a large Starboard backer underneath. Much stronger.

I have a rail mount for sale if anyone needs one!