Locating water in the hull?

[Saralin]

I hope I didn't post this twice . . . I have been reading several former threads on water in the hull. I’m sure I have a problem, but wanted some inputs from the group as I proceed forward. 1) My rub rail is in bad shape, some water is certainly coming through the rivets. This is being repaired. 2) The inspection port under the porta-potti is uncovered and likely took on some water during a hull flood a year ago – but I’m not sure. 3) My fresh water system has a slow leak. I’m trying to fix this now, but can’t find the leak. 4) Finally, I have not addressed the suggestions on the site regarding the anchor locker drain tube. I’m not sure I fully understand this issue, but this could also be a contributor to the water. Anyway, the boat does not perform any different than it did 10 years ago, but these water issues have me concerned and want to make certain I have addressed them.

How do I check to see if there is water in the hull – besides weighing the boat? Is the hull area under the V-berth the only place water can collect? The inspection port under the area where the porta potti should sit is filled tight with foam. How can I work around this to see if water is pooled underneath?

I really appreciate your inputs - John (Saralin)

[starcrafttom]

I will give this a shot. First the area under the v-berth is filled with foam and the inspection plate is at the lowest point. There is no wood in this area so you dont have to worry about that. if the foam in the inspection area is dry you should be ok. if its wet you need to dry it out some how. If you where to remove the foam in the inspection plate only, about a 6 inch circle, then any water in the bow area, if you raise the bow of the boat with the trailer jack, should pool in the hole and you can use a dry vac to clean it out. You will have to do this a few times over a week until you get no more water. then you can use a dry shop vac to blow air into the hole to help dry out any mildew or left over moisture. use a heavy garbage bag taped to the vac hose and the hatch to seal the area and turn on the air. leave it going for a day or so. if your v berth has small plastic black plugs higher up in the v berth, where the mattress sets, then remove them so the warm air has a place to go. if not cut a small hole ,1/2, near he chain locker and plug it or fix it after you think the area is dry.

as for the chain locker. the wall of the chain locker and the hull do not fit tight to one another. so you end up with a small space between them ,that you can not see because the two walls are glassed together where they meet. this is right in the same spot that the drain hole id drilled. happened on a lot of c-dorys. so water is not all draining out the drain, some is leaking into the berth foam filled space in the hull. to repair it you can drill out the drain hole a little bigger and glue in a plastic tube thru the hole . do not cut it to fit until after it has dried. leave a inch or more on each side until its dry. then cut it with a razor blade. this will bridge the gap. I also raised the floor of the anchor locker so the drain and the floor where at the same height. I just mixed up resin and added wood fiber and poured it in to the right level. I did this when the trailer was bow down as far as it would go so the front of the locker would be higher then the drain hole. this way it holds no water at all, before it would hold a 1/2 inch that would smell by the end of a weekend. now no more problems.

as for the rest of the boat. the floor is wood core. you will need to get a moisture meter to see if you have any water in the core.

[richnkay]

I recently went through this and will try to add my experiences to what Mr. Elliott said. Tom mentioned the black plastic inspection plugs and removing them to aid air circulation. I removed mine also but I also poked a 3' long 3/8" wooden dowel through them into the bottom of the boat and through some foam and found that the tip of my dowel came up wet, indicating there was water down there and that it had soaked up into the bottom of the foam. At the inspection plate under the porta potti you can use a long thin blade and cut a 2" square plug out of the foam, all the way to the hull. Pull your foam plug out and look for water and check to see if the plug bottom is wet. You can either replace the plug or just leave it out as a means for future inspections.
You are certainly not alone on this one but there are some fixes.
Rich.

[Sea Wolf]

Good answers, so far!

Since I think no one has addressed the rub rail issue, I'll give that a try.

There are several threads you can look up on this.

The cure, essentially, is to totally remove the rubber bumper and metal channel and re-install them.

Drill out the old rivets and clean up the holes and fiberglass surfaces.

Don't re-install with rivets. Use 10-32 or 10-24 countersunk head stainless steel machine screws of the correct length. On the inside, use S.S. fender washers and S.S. nylock aircraft/marine nuts.

Seal it on the outside and inside {screw heads, shafts, and washer/nuts) with 3M 4200 to lock the water out.

You'll need a second person on the inside or outside to help hold, turn, and bed the machine screws. Wipe the excess off.

Try to get the length of the screws just right so that there aren't "meat hooks" created with the ends of the screws that stick out beyond the nuts. If that's a problem, the following are options:

1. Dab some extra bedding compound on the ends of the shafts/shanks to blunt them, or
2. put another nut on the shaft to blunt it (doesn't have to be a nylock, but should be stainless) , or
3. Cut a short piece of soft plastic tube (like Tygon) on the shank to blunt it, or
4. Get a cut off tool and cut the screw shanks off flush with the end of the nut. Watch out, however, as many cut off wheels leave small needle-like debris from the wheels as they're used up in the cutting process. Who wants those in you sleeping/eating/living area?!?
5. Use some combination of the above methods. Many of the screws come through in areas where they are not exposed to human contact, hence are simpler to deal with.

The rubber bumper part has to be re-installed with large, flat-blade screwdriver, which is used to push in the flange/edge of the rubber into the metal channel.

Hope this helps!

Joe.

[Peter_BDA]

Both my rub rails were in very bad shape and definately contributed to water getting into the cabin. Rebedding them properly took a few hours per side, the biggest pain in the butt was getting the rubber back in the rail.

I used bolts and oversized washers on the inside to insure I got a good seal along with the prerequisite 4200....

http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?set_albumName=album1449&id=IMG_0006_1600x1200&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php

The next thing I did was went and sat in the boat with a flashlight durring a torrential downpour......and found a few more leaks. Namely the cleat botls and one of the railing stanchion bolts.

Have fun!
Peter

[Saralin]

I'm going to get busy on this over the weekend. I will let you all know what I find, because I will certainly need some more advice. But, I do feel better about the project.

Regarding the rub rail. I wanted to seek a new rub rail that was larger (much larger) than the current one. I know this may be exaggerated, but I do think it will have some utility and it might look nice too. Do you have any ideas on manufacturers that I can seek.

Best wishes, John (Saralin)

[Sea Wolf]

[c-ness]

True, but that would mean I'd need a bigger slip....more money.

[thataway]

Taco is one of the largest rub rail diplomats. But hole spacing may be different, and require filling the old holes. Wider rails may leave more gap.

[Saralin]

I wanted to let the C-Brats know about the great help I received on a post from April 28 (Water in Hull). I was able to do some work on the Saralin over the weekend. The Rub Rail job was a big one, but it is done and looks great. Joe (Sea Wolf) was particularly helpful. I also wanted to share some specifics that I learned and might be helpful to others.
The few remaining rivets were easy to pop out. I was really surprised how weak this feature was. There were 100 total thru-hull openings. I purchased 10 x 32 machine screws, nuts with nylon inserts, and 1 1/4 inch washers - all SS. The 1 inch screws were perfect for all holes except about 10, which required 1 1/4 inch screws. With the washer and nut, there is no exposed screw when the 1 inch was used. I purchased a box of 100 (screws, nuts, and washers) from Midwest Fastner (Kalamazoo, MI). This was less than 1/3 the cost of buying packs of 3 from Home Depot. I couldn't get the flat "pan" screw head, so I used oval heads. They worked fine. My boat is a 2002 and I suspect the rub rails differ in other years, which likely affects the screw size needed, but these worked well for me. When putting the rubber insert back in the channel, I noticed that it became more difficult as I moved further aft. I learned this was because the height was lower than where I stared at the bow and I was therefore holding the screwdriver at a different angle. Use a large, flat head screwdriver angled 45 degrees upward and push and twist in a single motion. Once I figured this out, it popped in with no problem.

John (Saralin)

[Saralin]

Oh yea, I also cut away the foam under the inspection port at the entrance to the V-berth. The floor is dry and there is no indicaion of water. Its coming from someplace else. I replaced all the fresh water hoses and clamps. It is coming in through rain water - I'm convinced. Now, I need find out where. Maybe the rub rail repair will solve the problem. It was really in bad shape.

[potter water]

I also posted on this issue a while ago. Since then, I did the tube liner between the anchor locker and the hull. I also found in my case that the Lewmar winch was leaking like a sieve. That was because when it was installed, there was no gasket placed between the winch and the deck. Of course, the CD decks are the saw tooth slip free type with meant the rain would come in completely unhindered into the chain locker and splash elsewhere. So, I uninstalled the windlass, and found in the boat documentation a plastic sleeve holding....wait for it....the gasket that the instructions said to install between the windlass and the deck. So, the gasket went under along with some additional marine sealant, and I ran the garden hose full blast at the deck with no leakage save a few drops that get in through the chain ratchet mechanics. I can't imagine the person who installed the winch not putting that gasket in place. But they didn't. So, now, after almost 3 weeks of soaking rains here in northern Utah, not a drop has shown up in the cabin. ( I don't think the sleeve tube did the whole job, but all of those boats should have that sleeve between the locker and the outer hull at manufacture.)