Adrift in a sea of additives.....

Mike... · Posted: Sat Oct 09, 2010 5:48 pm Post subject: Adrift in a sea of additives.....

Sta-Bil Blue... PRI-G... Heet... B12 Chemtool... SeaFoam... BG 44K...

Huh?

So I was reading through this interesting thread which is about Fuel Winterization, and I was taken with all the various additives that other Brats put this their fuel tanks.

And from there, I searched and found other references to these products in various posts, but didn't find any definitive guide on what to use and when.

The one I know is Sta-Bil Blue, and I have used that at 1oz per 10gal in 100% E0 Gasoline (we can still get that here, at least for now).

PRI-G and Heet are also fuel treatments, yes? Are they better, same, or worse than Sta-Bil Blue?

And what about B12 Chemtool, SeaFoam, and BG 44K? These are carb/injector cleaners, yes? When do I use these? Occasionally as a precautionary measure, or when the my Honda BF150s start running a little rough?
---
mike

Comfortably Numb · Posted: Sat Oct 09, 2010 5:59 pm Post subject:

SeaFoam, which is what I use exclusively with great success, is a fuel stabilizer, fuel system cleaner, and lubricant...also dries fuel. I have used it in the Comfortably Numb, as well as the Jet Ski, etc. We had to travel up to the western point of Lake Superior to take delivery of our C-Dory, and was pleased to hear that "hardcores" on Lake Superior use it with the same success I have enjoyed.

I use it for the winter nap, as well as regular use during boating season. It is put in every load of fuel I burn, no matter what is going on.

Captains Cat · Posted: Sat Oct 09, 2010 7:43 pm Post subject:

I don't measure it, just put a little in whenever I top off the tanks. Try to keep to the formula though. I use Startron and Blue Stabil. I always buy the non ethanol gasoline, most marinas here have it and when on the road, several gas stations here near the water still have E0 gas.

Had some water problems last year, changed both the engine low pressure filters and the external ones. No problems since, I try to keep the tanks as full as possible, my gages stink and I just use engine hours to estimate what I need.

I have one of the little overflow devices to catch any spills out of the vents. They tend to "spit" when the tanks get close to full. In the water it's pretty easy, on the lift, it's hard because the boat isn't "level".

Charlie

BrentB · Posted: Sat Oct 09, 2010 9:05 pm Post subject:

I use them and not brand loyal based on blended gasoline quality varies at the purchase source and at the plant, varies with the season, the storage tank b/c most are keep full and rare empty or cleaned, and is an unstable item. The best advice a mechanic told me is to use your boat daily.
Wink

I cant determine their content and concentration except for Techron which uses polyether amine
m2cw

nieking · Posted: Sat Oct 09, 2010 10:35 pm Post subject:

I've used Seafoam for close to ten years with all my gas eating devices. It is excellent stuff IMO. :thup

Matt Gurnsey · Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 12:43 pm Post subject:

Heet is not a fuel treatment, it is a fuel drier.

But-

There are two formulas- the Yellow which has methonal in it, which is another alchohol that absorbs water. In E0 gas it allows small quantities of water to mix with the gasoline and be burned off.

Since E10 gas already has alchohol in it, it tends to absorb water to the point where the alchohol is saturated with water. When this happens the alchohol can no longer "blend" the water and fuel, and the alchohol / water blend seperates from the fuel. This is Phase Seperation.

Once phase seperation occurs, it is not possible to reblend the alchohol/water with the fuel. So methanol based fuel driers will increase the likelyhood pf phase seperation.

Isopropyl driers (the red Iso-Heet) do a better job of blending the water and fuel, and I have seen indications that it can reblend fuel treated with Methanol that has had minor phase seperation. I don't think it can help with E10 fuels that have phase seperated, because the water concentration is so high.

The Blue Sta-Bil has no alchohol in it.

Side note- I have seen a number of people adding Premium grade fuel in the hopes that it will improve runability caused by fuel issues.

Premium fuel contains no more detrengent or treatment additives than regular , so there is no advantage to adding premium for solving fuel related issues. In fact there is one huge downside- Premium fuel because of the way it is blended, is less stable than regular, and will degrade faster, losing octane, until after being store for awhile it's octane rating could wind up lower than regular gas stored for the same period of time.

localboy · Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 12:52 pm Post subject:

It's a new world: Stanadyne in my diesel, red Stabil in my mower, power washer, VW's & generator and blue Stabil in the boat. It all adds up $$$$$$.

I miss the good old days of reg sulfur deisel and 100% dyno gas... Rolling Eyes

Mike... · Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:16 pm Post subject:

Thanks all for the replies. Not sure which I should be using based on our small sampling, but it sounds like Seafoam or Blue Stabil+Startron.

And, avoid E10 like the plague, but if you have to use it, avoid premium and put some red Iso-Heet in it.

But, once E10 has become phase separated, it time for disposal.

Do I have that right?
---
mike

localboy · Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:21 pm Post subject:

Mike this is only my experience:

I use blue Sta-bil religiously
In season I use the lower ratio; in winter the higher
We've pretty much always filled w/ fresh E-10, 87 octane. (It's not easy to find non-ethanol up here for various reasons & I will not go there)
Boat was stored in-doors last yr and we had no issue and was not used from late Nov thru mid April

hardee · Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:33 pm Post subject:

Chester · Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 11:08 pm Post subject:

So why not just use rubbing alcohol made of 90+% isopropyl (isopropanol) alcohol? That seems to be the main ingredient in HEET.
Blue STA-BIL, among others, has anti corrosion elements so add isopropyl to it possibly?
Many additives are mainly common chemicals with wildly inflated prices.

Swee Pea · Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 5:01 am Post subject:

AstoriaDave · Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 6:23 am Post subject:

Matt wrote: In fact there is one huge downside- Premium fuel because of the way it is blended, is less stable than regular, and will degrade faster, losing octane, until after being store for awhile it's octane rating could wind up lower than regular gas stored for the same period of time.

This baffles me. I can't think of how the blending process would result in a fuel that would lose octane over time, inasmuch as it is usually oxidation that occurs in fuel allowed to sit. I thought it was mainly the formation of varnish and gum that degraded fuel over time, leading to screwed up injectors, and carburetor jets.

Can you take this a little further, Matt?

AstoriaDave · Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 8:01 am Post subject:

Nothin' in here about greater sensitivity of premium fuel to loss of octane: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/autos/gasoline-faq/part1/index.html

Matt Gurnsey · Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:56 am Post subject:

It's been awhile since I was doing fuel classes. Let's see how much I remember-

If you take a barrel of oil, imagine that the heavier products are taken out (diesel, lubricating oil, etc), and there is a small band in the middle that gasoline is made from. As oil prices rise, there is teh desire to extract as much usuable product from the fuel as possible.

In fact in the early days, they used to burn off the "lighter" by products as waste.

To blend higher octane fuels they reach into the higher end of the barrel, and wind up with a less stable fuel that degrades more quickly.

Even untreated regular begins degrading within weeks, and because the premium is less stable, it can break down faster. Yes, oxidization is a lot of what causes this.

Today's fuels are incredibly unstable, and don't like holding together. The more they tinker with what we call "gasoline" the worse they make it.